XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien, alt.fan.tolkien
From: Troels@ThisIsFake.invalid
In message
Steve Hayes spoke these staves:
>
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 22:04:25 +0200, Troels Forchhammer
> wrote:
>>
>> It would be interesting to know how Williams thought of his
>> relationship with Tolkien. Does anyone know about that? Has
>> Williams' letters been published or something?
>
> I asked in the Charles Williams mailing list, and here are some
> replies:
Thanks, Steve! This is more or less what I was hoping for (I hoped,
of course, that Williams had been a bit more direct, but then again,
Tolkien didn't speak specifically of his views on Williams until
after the latter's death).
> 'Williams was enthusiastic about the "new hobbit". I can't give a
> reference off hand, but could probably find it.
That's interesting: in particular given Tolkien's opinion about
Williams' writing and his statement that he believed it was
reciprocated by Williams.
> Tolkien didn't "sour" to Williams till well after the latter's
> death (when T was ouring to a lot of things...)' Richard Sturch.
My impression, when reading _Letters_ is that Tolkien had never liked
Williams' writings, but that he enjoyed the man's company. Some time
after Williams' death, there is indeed a 'souring' (I didn't quote
from these passages previously). My impression, when I read Tolkien's
letters, is that Tolkien came to resent more and more the influence
of Williams upon Lewis' writings, 'a very impressionable, too
impressionable, man' according to Tolkien. Tolkien also writes that
'Williams' influence [upon Lewis' writings] actually only appeared
with his death'.
Tolkien's souring is, I believe, nowhere in the published letters
more visible than when he wrote that
We liked one another and enjoyed talking (mostly in jest)
but we had nothing to say to one another at deeper (or
higher) levels. I doubt if he had read anything of mine
then available; I had read or heard a good deal of his
work, but found it wholly alien, and sometimes very
distasteful, occasionally ridiculous.
_Letters_ #276 to Dick Plotz, September 1965
even when tempered by the following qualification
(This is perfectly true as a general statement, but is not
intended as a criticism of Williams; rather it is an
exhibition of my own limits of sympathy.
(ibid)
The above is, in my opinion, a fairly strong statement that is, again
IMO, not wholly consistent with the earlier descriptions in which
Tolkien implies that they had more to say to each other than mere
jest, even if he had ever disliked Williams' _writing_.
> From Jon Isaac:
>
> 'Now that I am home: The essay contributed to the Williams tribute
> by Tolkie was called "On Fairy Stories". Other essayists were
> Dorothy Sayers, Owen Barfield and the Lewises Clive and Warren.
Yes -- a reworking of his Andrew Lang lecture from 1939 was Tolkien's
contributions. I don't know if it was lack of time or because he felt
it appropriate, but some of the argument would seem to criticize, to
some extent at at least when seen as fairy-stories, parts of
Williams' writings. That is, when I go by the descriptions of
Williams' writings in Hammond and Scull's _Reader's Guide_ it appears
to be in large parts opposed to Tolkien's arguments about sub-
creation.
> In his introduction to the book Lewis narrates a funny story about
> Williams:
Carpenter, in his Tolkien biography, suggests that Tolkien was a
little jealous of Lewis' friendship with Williams which he, according
Carpenter, felt took something away from himself in his own
relationship with Lewis. This is probably linked with Tolkien's
(later) resentment of Williams' influence on Lewis.
--
Troels Forchhammer
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