XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien, alt.fan.tolkien   
   From: Troels@ThisIsFake.invalid   
      
   In message    
   Weland  spoke these staves:   
   >   
   > Nicholas Young wrote:   
   >>   
   >> "Troels Forchhammer"  wrote in message   
   >> news:Xns9DBBDB3F63EFAT.Forch@130.133.4.11...   
   >>>   
   [Tolkien . . .]   
   >>> does say at one point that he disliked Williams' characters   
   >>> except one 'Lord Gro'   
   >>   
   >> Quick correction: Lord Gro is a character in E.R.Eddison's _The   
   >> Worm Ouroborous_, not in anything by Williams.  Your quotation   
   >> rings a bell, though: I believe that Tolkien did say precisely   
   >> that when talking about Eddison.   
      
   Ooops! ;)  Sorry about that error and thank you for correcting me. I   
   was (as you've probably already guessed) rather blindly looking for   
   references to Williams and failed to read the whole passage, so I   
   didn't catch the context.   
      
   >> Tolkien was by his own admission, as I think someone else quoted:   
   >> "a man of limited sympathies (though well aware of them)."  He   
   >> would probably have disliked most of the genre in which his work   
   >> is placed,   
      
   On the other hand he appears to have liked some of the science   
   fiction that was published including Asimov.   
      
   How much, I wonder, can be derived from what (quite possible very   
   little) we know about his sym- and antipathies? Can we begin to get   
   some idea of what it was that he liked in a book and what he actively   
   disliked? Hmmm -- perhaps a new thread devoted to Tolkien's literary   
   tastes?   
      
   >> including that small number of works that Tolkien-lovers consider   
   >> close in stature to the master   
      
   I wonder which authors might fall in this group at all?   
      
   >> not always the same set, of course  ;-)   
      
   Of course ;)   
      
   > Yes, I have to say that most Tolkien imitators fail utterly.....   
      
   I'm not as widely read as some in these groups, but I can't think of   
   any Tolkien _imitator_ that does not fail utterly: possibly because   
   there is something in the very attempt to imitate _Tolkien_ that   
   makes it impossible?   
      
   > the closest in feel is Kay in my view, though Kay is also using   
   > his own voice to tell his tales....but I think he gets closer to   
   > the real spirit of Tolkien than most others.   
      
   Christopher Tolkien seeking Kay's advice when compiling and editing   
   _The Silmarillion_ certainly implies a recognition of certain common   
   traits.   
      
   > It might be interesting to compile a list of authors others think   
   > capture "tolkienian spirit" in their novels....not your favorites   
   > per se, but those authors you think get Tolkien.   
      
   I presume we're talking about reasonably modern authors (twentieth   
   and twentyfirst centuries)? One of the best places, in my opinion, to   
   go for stories that contain much of the same 'air' as Tolkien's work   
   is to read the old myths and legends: sagas, eddas, Kalevala, etc.   
   etc.   
      
   Asimov, in my opinion, is one of the authors (of those that I know)   
   that come closest in terms of the sub-creation's power to command   
   Secondary Belief.   
      
   Eddings is a bit comical: for all his denunciations of Tolkien, he   
   obviously couldn't really manage to tear himself free from the   
   Tolkienian tradition, though he, IMO, failed to capture any part of   
   the 'Tolkienian spirit' as you call it. I'm not sure that it's quite   
   a fair way to put it, but from his own statements one can get the   
   impression that he tried to avoid attempting to imitate Tolkien --   
   and failed. And failing he tried -- and failed :-/  (there is, again   
   IMO, some enjoyable humour in his books that one doesn't really find   
   in Tolkien's works, though for humorous fantasy I'd recommend   
   Pratchett long before Eddings).   
      
   Much can be said in favour of Selma Lagerlöf's _Nils Holgerssons   
   underbara resa genom Sverige_ (Eng: _The Wonderful Adventures of   
   Nils_), though from 1906-7 it predates anything Tolkien published :)   
      
   I would also emphasize Astrid Lindgren's _Ronja Rövardotter_ (Eng:   
   _Ronia, the Robber's Daughter_) and __ (Eng: _The Brothers   
   Lionheart_). Though both are addressed to children which does make   
   for differences to LotR, they also contain some of the qualities that   
   are found in Tolkien's work.   
      
   This said, very many gifted authors share something -- both with   
   Tolkien as well as each other. Gifted authors of the kind that take   
   us out of the mundane world (whether by travelling in time, by   
   travelling in space, by the medium fantastic science or fantastic   
   fantasy, or in some other way that I haven't thought of) will   
   naturally share more with each other than they do with authors whose   
   works do not leave the mundane world.   
      
   --   
   Troels Forchhammer     
   Valid e-mail is    
   Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.   
      
       "It would seem that you have no useful skill or talent   
        whatsoever," he said. "Have you thought of going into   
       teaching?"   
    - /Mort/ (Terry Pratchett)   
      
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