XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien, alt.fan.tolkien
From: n.a.y@com.btinternet
"Öjevind Lång" wrote in message
news:8b2m1vF4oqU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Nicholas Young" skrev i meddelandet
> news:i2fpk5$4rt$1@speranza.aioe.org...
[much unmarked snippage]
>>> How much, I wonder, can be derived from what (quite possible very
>>> little) we know about his sym- and antipathies? Can we begin to get
>>> some idea of what it was that he liked in a book and what he actively
>>> disliked? Hmmm -- perhaps a new thread devoted to Tolkien's literary
>>> tastes?
>>
>> I'm up for it - though my participation is and will remain erratic.
>
> Sounds like an excellent idea.
We seem to have started ;-) Though I note, that as Troels warned, this
could become simply a list of our favourite authors rather than those who
display "Tolkien-esque" characteristics.
> Imitations remain just that - imitations, with no independent life. The
> only exception I can think of is Edward Eager, who back in the '50s and
> '60s wrote books that were very obviously imitations of E. Nesbit's
> stories, and yet quite good. His story about a toy city come to life is
> actually better than Nesbit's. (I suspect Nesbit was writing the
> instalments of her story with the boy from the newspaper waiting at the
> door for them, as was often the case with her.) Eager's "Half Magic" is
> particularly good.
I like Eager and agree that he has a merit of his own; but actually I think
he's distinctly inferior to Nesbit.
>> Of course, I carefully didn't say "imitators" ... I agree with you,
>> Troels, that imitators will always pretty much fail, though not so much
>> because there's anything unique about Tolkien _in this respect_; merely
>> because imitation implies a lack of original thought. (Tributes of
>> course are another matter; there authors may acknowledge their debt to a
>> master and yet have something of their own to say.)
>
> An excellent point. Writers of cheap fantasy are a dime a dozen now, and I
> have become very leery of new fantasy writers. I circle around them like a
> cat in the book shops, sniffing at them and mostly deciding to skip them.
> [...]
-)
> I must respectfully disagree here. Tolkien used many narrative devices
> that simply had not been invented back in the times of the great myths and
> legends. They were of course an inspiration to him, but his writing is
> actually very different from them.
Yes. Tolkien singlehandedly created a complete mythology comparable to any
other such body of work, all other examples of which have emerged over
centuries if not millennia. This is a quite fantastic achievement: no one
else that I can think of has come even remotely close. To do this he drew
on narrative devices both past and present. His writing style is sometimes
derided as no more than adequate; but the point is that it *is* adequate to
portray his imagination, and that's all that needed.
>> Probably the real issue with Asimov is that his work doesn't engage the
>> deep emotions; one doesn't actually learn anything important from him
>> . And this is true of a large number of
>> writers of both hard SF and fantasy.
>
> I agree, and as for the Foundation books, I only like the original
> trilogy; the later books are all part of his rather horrible attempt to
> shoehorn all his writings into a single unified future history;
Agreed. I was thinking only of the originals. The later ones, while
sometimes good in their own right, completely spoil the logic of the earlier
novels.
> However, Asimov did write one short story which I think is truly moving
> and engaging on the human plane, and that is "The Ugly Little Boy".
Again agreed, though actually it's not very much about the characters as
such, which are not very well developed, more the situation. (I do quite
like Susan Calvin as a character.)
>> So ... those I can think of at present who seem to share something of the
>> Tolkien spirit, while not necessarily achieving the same level of
>> mastery, are:
>> C .S. Lewis
>> Charles Williams (possibly)
>> E. R. Eddison (but only in _The Worm Ouroborous_)
>> John Christopher (children's writer, notably _The Tripods_ and _Prince in
>> Waiting_ trilogies)
>> Lord Dunsany
>> Terry Brooks
>> Poul Anderson (ranges between hard SF and fantasy)
>> Garth Nix (again a children's writer, _The Old Kingdom_ series)
>> J.K.Rowling (in my view outstanding; time will tell)
>
> I'd omit Rowling, whom I don't care for,
... but see above: this is not just about personal preference; do you think
she is in the Tolkien mould or somewhere completely different? ...
> and I'm not too fond of Terry Brooks either.
Again agreed; again see above and also my previous point about Brooks
finding his own (limited) voice.
> On the other hand, I love Urusula K. Le Guin's Earthsea trilogy - though
> not the later Earthsea books. In my opinion, Le Guin sacrificed her great
> talent on the altar of politics.
Yes - I totally forgot her and should have included her in exactly the same
way as you have. Though in fact I think her very latest work is better than
what precedes it: for instance, I enjoyed _The Other Wind_ (the fifth book
of Earthsea) *very* much more than _Tehanu_.
> Clifford D. Simak (an old favourite of mine) once tried his hand at
> fantasy and produced an extremely good book called "Where the Evil
> Dwells." I recommend it highly. He seems to have taken some elements from
> Rosemary Sutcliff's novels about Roman Britain and transplanted them to
> the realm of fantasy, adding... I won't say anything more. I love it.
> (Must reread that book soon.)
Never enjoyed Simak much except on a superficial level; and again, is this
just a recommendation or do you think he writes in the same spirit as
Tolkien?
>> [Stephen Donaldson's] largest body of work is _The Chronicles of Thomas
>> Covenant the Unbeliever_, but there are also other series and some
>> absolutely wonderful short stories, of which _Reave the Just_ is perhaps
>> the most remarkable while being very accessible. (If you don't know his
>> writing, begin with Covenant; *do not* start with the _Gap_ series.)
>
> I can't say I care for Donaldson and his Sad Sam of a hero.
OK. Do me a favour: read any of _Reave the Just_ in the collection of that
name, or _Daughter of Regals_ or _Unworthy of the Angel_ in the collection
_Daughter of Regals_. Then let me know what you think ;-)
>> Agreed. The person whom Donaldson brings to mind for me is Susan
>> Howatch - does anyone else read both, and if so do you agree? The genres
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* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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