XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien, alt.books.cs-lewis   
   From: hayesstw@telkomsa.net   
      
   On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 19:33:39 -0400, John W Kennedy    
   wrote:   
      
   >On 2010-08-12 05:44:36 -0400, Dirk Thierbach said:   
   >   
   >> John W Kennedy  wrote:   
   >>> On 2010-08-11 20:07:25 -0400, Steve Morrison said:   
   >>>> John W Kennedy wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>>> "If... we really thought that there were people going about who had   
   >>>>> sold themselves to the devil and received supernatural powers from him   
   >>>>> in return and were using these powers to kill their neighbours or drive   
   >>>>> them mad or bring bad weather -- surely we would all agree that if   
   >>>>> anyone deserved the death penalty, then these filthy quislings did?"   
   >>>>> -- C. S. Lewis   
   >>   
   >>>> I've always thought Lewis was missing the point in this passage. Even   
   >>>> if such wrongdoers did exist, we'd still consider it wrong to e.g.   
   >>>> convict any defendant on the basis of evidence obtained by torture,   
   >>>> or to use torture in the first place. There's a reason why we use   
   >>>> the phrase "witch hunt" to condemn unfair proceedings even when we   
   >>>> actually believe in the existence of the object of the persecution,   
   >>>> say, communists or child molesters.   
   >>   
   >>> But Lewis is not talking about either hunting or trying witches; he's   
   >>> talking about whether witchcraft, assuming it existed, should be   
   >>> regarded as a capital offence, no more.   
   >>   
   >> But there's this tiny little technicality of actually deciding   
   >> if someone has this kind of supernatural powers.   
   >   
   >Which is not the issue at hand.   
   >   
   >> Killing people certainly deserves a penalty. No matter what the means.   
   >> However, if it's impossible to prove that someone actually committed   
   >> murder, then the act of imposing a penalty nevertheless is open to abuse.   
   >>   
   >> And *that* is the main point (and the reason why "which hunt"   
   >> is a synonym for "unfair prejucided proceedings"). Independent of   
   >> whether torture is used or not.   
      
   I think we need to observe the distinction between witch hunts and which   
   hunts.   
      
   The former refers to hunting people who are alleged to harm others by occult   
   or supernatural means, while the latter refers to going through a text and   
   changing improper uses of "which" to "that".   
      
   >>   
   >> So, yes, Lewis misses the point. Completely.   
   >   
   >No he doesn't. You're moving the target.   
      
   The historian Ronald Hutton, in his book "Pagan religions of the ancient   
   British Isles", seems to be making a similar point to Lewis when he wrote:   
      
   "The pagan Romans, like most ancient peoples and modern tribal societies,   
   prescribed the death penalty for those who killed or who harmed property by   
   witchcraft: in a system which believes in magic and has capital punishment for   
   normal murder and arson, there is no other logical situation."   
   (Hutton 1991:255).   
      
      
      
      
      
      
   --   
   Steve Hayes   
   Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/litmain.htm   
        http://www.goodreads.com/hayesstw   
        http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)