XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien, alt.fan.tolkien, alt.fan.harry-potter
From: dthierbach@usenet.arcornews.de
Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:38:59 +0200, Dirk Thierbach
> wrote:
>>Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>>> In message richard e white
>>> spoke these staves:
>>>> If a spiritual vision is the center of the idea, then JKR's books
>>>> don't fit.
>>> Right, I quite agree.
>>
>>I'm actually not so sure. Critics thought for a long time that
>>the LotR was completely devoid of any reference to Christian themes.
> Which critics would those be?
Whichever critics the person who stated this was referring to; he
didn't name any in particular. And no, at the moment can't remember
where I read that. OTOH, I'm not at all surprised by it, so I consider
it likely to be true.
>>> And Rowling's books also doesn't have the same fundamental Christian
>>> basis to them that do Tolkien's books and the Narnia books -- there
>>> is, in my honest opinion, no sense of providence in Rowling's work,
>>Just because Tolkien worked in the "providence" theme doesn't
>>mean that Rowling should, too.
> No, it doesn't mean she should, it just means that she didn't, and that her
> books are therefore different in that respect.
Of course they are, but that doesn't mean that in order to "write in
the tradition of the Inlings" one should take that approach. Especially
since I'd say that this particular theme is especially emphasized by
Tolkien, and a lot less by the other Inklings, as far as I know them
(people who have read more from the other Inklings than I did please
correct me if I'm wrong).
>>> none of the 'trust in God' that I get both in Lewis' Narnia books
>>Well, Narnia is in many places a very thinly veiled Christian
>>allegory. If Lewis just built in the "trust of God" theme, the Narnia
>>books would be a lot less annoying in this respect.
> Not really an allegory.
Well, I consider using a "lion" for "Christ" pretty much an allegory,
for example. Whatever you like to call it.
There's a very clear cut one-to-one correspondence between between
very particular characters or actions in Narnia and very particular,
easy to identify counterparts in Christian teachings.
Or, to use Tolkien's words, there's a quite limited "applicability".
>>But Harry Potter is also about the fight of Good against Evil, and
>>about the fact that power corrupts, and that sometimes people have to
>>make sacrifices to be able to save others.
> Yes indeed.
>
> I'd say that Rowling's books are informed by Christian ethics, but they are
> not, as in the work of Lewis, Tolkien and Williams, fitted into a Christian
> mythological framework.
What exactly do you mean by a "Christian mythological framework"?
>>I have not read the HP books often enough to be able to draw a clear
>>parallel to Christian ideas, but I wouldn't rule out that some
>>closer inspection would find the one thing or the other.
>>
>>Maybe I should do a re-reading :-)
> It's clear enough in some of the books.
Can you give some concrete examples?
> One can see there Christian ethics and Christian values, but without
> the Christian mythological underpinning that one finds in Lewis,
> Tolkien & Co.
As I wrote, I don't think I understand what you mean here.
> Rowling manages to make her stories moral without being moralistic, and that
> is one of the nice things about them.
Yep. Though "morality" by itself doesn't mean "Christian". That's why
I'd prefer to have a closer look.
> Lewis occasionally lapses into moralism
For rather large values of "occasionally", bordering on "often".
- Dirk
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
|
