XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien, alt.fan.tolkien, alt.fan.harry-potter   
   From: dthierbach@usenet.arcornews.de   
      
   Steve Hayes  wrote:   
   > On Wed, 20 Oct 2010 09:36:33 +0200, Dirk Thierbach   
   >>Steve Hayes  wrote:   
   >>>  wrote:   
   >>>>Steve Hayes  wrote:   
   >>>>>  wrote:   
      
   >>>>>>OTOH, Granger seriously proposes to see Gilderoy Lockhart as a parallel   
   >>>>>>to Philip Pullman, which I think is totally nuts. So I'm a bit wary now   
   >>>>>>of what he writes.   
      
   >>>>> Now THAT would be an allegory, however veiled.   
      
   >>> Allegory, a figurative narrative or description, conveying a veiled moral   
   >>> meaning: an extended metaphor.   
   >>   
   >>Ok. So what's the veiled moral meaning or metaphor in having an   
   >>invented character that shares some personality traits with a real   
   >>person (but has otherwise nothing to do with the real person)?   
   >>   
   >>It's not like Lockhart is Christ. Or Truth.   
      
   > No, he isn't. And he's not Philip Pullman either.   
      
   > The Harry Potter books are not allegory, though there may possibly be some   
   > allegories within them, though I can't recall any.   
      
   I'm confused now. I understood you were saying "if Lockhart is   
   modelled on Pullman, than that is an allegory". If that is not what you're   
   saying (because you don't see any allegories in Harry Potter), then   
   we're in agreement.   
      
   > Neither are the Narnia stories allegories,   
      
   Not as a whole, but (using your phrasing) they *contain* a lot of allegory.   
      
   > nor is Lewis's science fiction allegory,   
      
   I'm undecided on that.   
      
   > nor are Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit allegories.   
      
   Certainly not. But "Leaf by Niggle" is an allegory.   
      
   > While allegories may have a veiled moral meaning, not everythin g that has a   
   > veiled moral meaning is an allegory.   
      
   I never said so.   
      
   > But "Animal Farm" is an allegory.   
      
   Yes, certainly.   
      
   > Some have taken LOTR as an allegory, with the Ring being nuclear   
   > weaponry, for example. But Tolkien has explicitly said that that was   
   > not in his mind when he wrote it.   
      
   Yes, certainly.   
      
   >> OTOH, Aslan *is* Christ. And the relationship of the protagonists   
   >> to Aslan mirrors the the relationship the reader should have to Christ:   
   >> That's the metaphorical moral meaning.   
   >> Do you agree?   
      
   > But it's not allegory.   
      
   So what does distinguish this extended metaphor which conveys a moral   
   meaning from the other allegories? That it doesn't extend to the book   
   as a whole?   
      
   - Dirk   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)