XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien, alt.fan.tolkien   
   From: hayesstw@telkomsa.net   
      
   On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:07:18 +0200, Sandman  wrote:   
      
   >In article <1hll37dq10il5rc1u68kuorun3fsoiqgi4@4ax.com>,   
   > Paul S. Person  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 09:27:17 +0200, Sandman  wrote:   
   >>   
   >> >In article ,   
   >> > Ronald O. Christian  wrote:   
   >> >   
   >> >> (Oh and incidentally, we might actually see part of Gandalf's struggle   
   >> >> with The Necromancer, rather than have it happen mysteriously off   
   >> >> stage.)   
   >> >   
   >> >Just to clarify here - The Necromancer, as described in The Hobbit,   
   >> >was Sauron - right? I know that the identity of the Necromancer was   
   >> >unknown for a long time, but I'm not sure whether it was revealed in   
   >> >the timeframe of The Hobbit (and yes, I'm actually reading the book   
   >> >right now, to catch up).   
   >>   
   >> Yes and No.   
   >>   
   >> Yes, the Necromancer was revealed to be Sauron, just as the Ring was   
   >> revealed to be, well, the Ring, in order to connect /TH/ with /LOTR/.   
   >>   
   >> IIRC, No, this does not appear in /TH/. In fact, IIRC, Gandalf (and   
   >> the Wise) did not realize that the Necromancer was Sauron Reforming at   
   >> that time. It was only in retrospect that the identification was made.   
   >   
   >But, in relation to TH, when did the Council move against Dol Goldur   
   >then? Because they did so knowing he was Sauron (again, in the revised   
   >story line), which Gandalf found out by sneaking into Dol Goldur prior   
   >to that event, which as far as I know, takes place at least in the   
   >same year as TH.   
      
   To take an example from another book, or series of books, at which point did   
   who realise that "You know who" was Tom Riddle?   
      
   Gandalf no doubt knew, but in "The Hobbit" he gave information to the dwarves   
   and Bilbo on a "need to know" basis. The Necromancer was a shadowy figure of   
   evil that they must steer clear of. Only when they had to deal directly with   
   him and his growing power in LotR did they need to put all the information on   
   the table.   
      
      
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   Steve Hayes   
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