XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien, alt.fan.tolkien   
   From: jon.lennart.beck.its.my.name@mail.its.in.danmark   
      
   "Troels Forchhammer"  skrev i meddelelsen   
   news:Xns9FA4C70855AD4T.Forch@130.133.4.11...   
      
   > In message    
   > Steve Hayes  spoke these staves:   
   >> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 14:16:15 -0500, Steve Morrison   
   >>  wrote:   
      
   >>> How could there have been two Gelmirs? Tolkien makes it very clear   
   >>> that Elvish names are never, ever repeated;   
      
   >> Where does Tolkien say that Elvish names are never repeated?   
      
   > I believe that he says something about the repetition of Elvish names   
   > in the Glorfindel essays published in /The Peoples of Middle-earth/,   
   > but as I recall it he doesn't say that Elvish names are /never/   
   > repeated, but that /Glorfindel/ is such an unusual name that that   
   > particular name would never be repeated (or words to that effect).   
      
      This would be a circular definition. :-)  Or do you mean unusual in its   
   form or meaning, so that if there were an large number of Glorfindels the   
   name would still be defined as unusual?  Like eg. a Norse tribe where   
   everybody had a traditional Norse name save for a hundred people named   
   Pádraig Mohammed Yang? :-)   
      
   > Gelmir may be, in Tolkien's mind, a less unusual Elvish name that he,   
   > if my memory is not faulty, would consider legitimate for repetition.   
      
      It would be very difficult to avoid reuse of names, since it cannot be   
   expected that the parents and kin of a newborn would know every extant and   
   past Elvish name.  Particularly during the Exile in the First Age, where   
   tribes and Houses were scattered.  Otherwise there would have to be some   
   sort of magical-style knowledge, that if a proposed name were already in use   
   in the other end of Beleriand or in Aman, it would be flagged as such to all   
   parents with a new baby in want of a name.  Also Elvish names were not   
   generally non-words as is the case with many of our names, but words and   
   word compounds of their daily language.  Unless the Eldarin languages had   
   enormously rich vocabularies there would be a limit to the number of names   
   that could be formed, even with compounds - not all words are of course fit   
   for naming, save epithets given to enemies...   
      It might be argued that within a House, given names would not be reused,   
   to avoid confusion.  It might also be argued that for the purpose of   
   uniqueness, the full name includes a House name somewhat like the Roman   
   nomen gentile as well as a patro- or matronym.  But I haven't the essay   
   before me.   
      
   Cuervo.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)