XPost: alt.usage.english, alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books   
   From: peter@pmoylan.org   
      
   On 14/02/15 03:45, Catherine Jefferson wrote:   
      
   > To help the discussion, here are the "Five Points" taught by Calvin --   
   > the ones called T.U.L.I.P. to help people remember them (Steve knows   
   > these; I'm posting them for those who do not):   
   >   
   > * Total Depravity. Means that all parts of human nature are under the   
   > power of sin.  One consequence is that no human effort (but that of   
   > Christ, who was also God) can have any power whatsoever in bringing   
   > about the salvation of any human.   
   >   
   > * Unconditional Election. Means that God chose those who will be saved   
   > from the outset, and nothing can change His list.   
   >   
   > * Limited Atonement. Means that God saves only those whom He chose;   
   > Christ did not atone for the sin of the unsaved.   
   >   
   > * Irresistible Grace. Means that if God chooses to save someone, they   
   > are not able to decline/not be saved.   
   >   
   > * Perseverance of the Saints. Means that if God saves someone, they   
   > cannot fall.  ("Once saved, always saved").   
   >   
   > What this adds up to, in my view, is not so much a denial that human   
   > free will exists as an assertion that it plays no part in salvation.   
      
   I never knew that. So basically the Calvinists believe that one's   
   religious beliefs are of no importance, and an atheist is just as likely   
   to be saved as a believer.   
      
   --   
   Peter Moylan                           http://www.pmoylan.org   
   Newcastle, NSW, Australia   
   JE SUIS CHARLIE   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)