XPost: alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox, rec.arts.books   
   From: hayesmstw@hotmail.com   
      
   On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 04:24:24 GMT, John J. Reilly wrote:   
      
   >I am trying to track down the relationship between CW's ideas and those of   
   >"Tradition," the school of apocalyptic perennialism started by Rene Guenon. I   
   >am doing a review of a book on the subject: Against the Modern World. It does   
   >not mention Williams, but maybe it should.  If this does not ring a bell, that   
   >is some evidence that I have misread him.   
      
   Some comments on the discussion of tradition and the question   
   whether Charles Williams was influenced by Ren‚ Gu‚non (1886-   
   1951).   
      
   The first time I heard of Guenon was in Not of this world: the   
   life and teaching of Fr Seraphim Rose, pathfinder to ancient   
   Christianity" by the Monk Damascene Christensen. Fr Seraphim   
   (Eugene Rose) was brought up as a rather vague Protestant in the   
   USA. He studied Eastern religions at the American Academy of   
   Asian Studies in San Francisco (one of his teachers was Alan   
   Watts, mentor of some of the Beat Generation writers who embraced   
   Zen Buddhism). And it was there that he encountered the writings   
   of Guenon. It is from that book that I have made the following   
   summary.   
      
   Guenon believed that an intellectual elite was needed to restore   
   true metaphysical knowledge to the West. Watts criticised Western   
   civilisation on the grounds that it was inferior to that of the   
   East. "Guenon demonstrated that the problem lay not in the West   
   itself, but in the spirit of modernity that had taken over the   
   West. Whereas Watts was first of all a critic of the West, Guenon   
   was first of all a critic of modernity" (Christensen 1993:62).   
      
   Guenon convinced Eugene Rose (the future Fr Seraphim) that the   
   upholding of ancient tradition was valid, and not just a sign of   
   being unenlightened, as the modernists would claim. Whereas the   
   modern mentality viewed all things in terms of historical   
   progress, Guenon viewed them in terms of historical dis-   
   integration.   
      
   Guenon indicated that modern Western society is based on a   
   rejection of the traditional spirit of ancient cultures. He said   
   that only a return to the traditional *orthodox* forms of the   
   major world religions, either Eastern or Western, can man even   
   begin to come once more into contact with truth. As it is,   
   without a traditional world view to bring all into a coherent   
   whole, modern life becomes fragmented, disordered, confused, and   
   the modern world heads towards catastrophe.   
      
   Trying to fill the gap that science and materialism have left in   
   the modern age, "pseudo religions" have sprung up; but in their   
   confusion of psychic with spiritual reality, they have only fur-   
   ther obscured the truth.   
      
   "Unlike Watts, Guenon had no axe to grind with Christianity,   
   seeing it as the authentic spiritual tradition of the West. It   
   was only Protestantism and other modernistic deviations from tra-   
   ditional Christianity that Guenon did not accept" (Christensen   
   1993:64).   
      
   Guenon wrote: "Actually, religion being essentially a form of   
   tradition, the anti-traditional spirit cannot help being anti-   
   religious; it begins by denaturing religion and ends by sup-   
   pressing it altogether, wherever it is able to do so.   
   Protestantism is illogical from the fact that, while doing its   
   utmost to 'humanize' religion, it nevertheless permits the   
   survival, at least theoretically, of a supra-human element, name-   
   ly revelation: it hesitates to drive negation to its logical   
   conclusion..."   
      
   I'm not sure whether this kind of view finds its place in the   
   views of Charles Williams or the other Inklings. I am not   
   familiar enough with Guenon's views to pronounce on that, but it   
   would be interesting if anyone familiar with both the Inklings   
   and Guenon could comment.   
      
   I have one comment to make as an Orthodox Christian.   
      
   Orthodox Christians make a great deal of Holy Tradition, and it   
   is very important in the life of the Orthodox Church. Bearing   
   this in mind, one can see how easy it was from Eugene Rose, hav-   
   ing been prepared by reading Guenon, found Orthodox Christianity   
   attractive when he encountered it.   
      
   But it is important to bear in mind that while Orthodox   
   Christianity is traditional, it is not necessarily tradi-   
   tionalIST. And it seems to me that what Guenon espouses is not   
   tradition, but traditionalism. There is something there that   
   smacks of an ideology, and ideologies are part of modernity, the   
   very modernity that Guenon ostensibly rejects.   
      
   So it is also not surprising that Fr Seraphim Rose belonged to a   
   group of Orthodox Christians, the Russian Orthodox Church outside   
   Russia (ROCOR) that was not merely traditional, but tradi-   
   tionalIST. The did not merely follow the Old Calendar, they were   
   Old CalendrIST.   
      
   Well, let the discussion/debate continue!   
      
   --   
   Steve Hayes   
   E-mail: hayesmstw@hotmail.com   
   Web: http://www.geocities.com/hayesstw/stevesig.htm   
        http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/books.htm   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)