XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis   
   From: toomuchspam@spammer.org   
      
   Steve Hayes wrote:   
      
   >>But that's "Mere" Golden-Rule-ism, which is SUPPOSED to be common to   
   >>all great religions.   
   >   
   > Possibly, but as it's part of "mere Christianity", in your imaginary   
   > land through the wardrobe, people would be practising that too, if   
   > they were sincere.   
      
   See question below about sincere Christianity "diving" underground.   
      
   >>As I said, I'm relatively IGNORANT of Buddhism, but have Buddhists   
   >>ever fought wars against each other or thrown each other into jail,   
   >>and worse?   
   >   
   > Indeed they have, though they've been more inclined to throw   
   > non-Buddhists into jail and fight wars against non-Buddhists. Take the   
   > current situation in Sri Lanka, for example, or the history of Japan.   
      
   Japan isn't pure Buddhist, and Sri Lanka, as Bree points out, is like   
   Northern Ireland. Only I never heard of Buddhist terrorism or Buddhist   
   mass-murderers...   
      
   > However, I understood that we are not talking about *real* instances   
   > of mere Christianity or mere Buddhis, but about imaginary lands   
   > through wardrobes where everyone is sincere and practises their   
   > beliefs all the time, I I imagine such things would not happen there,   
   > just as they would not happen in the merely Christian land through the   
   > wardrobe.   
      
   So you're saying ALL the past Christians who persecuted and fought wars   
   against each other and other religions were NOT sincere? That sincere   
   Christianity dove underground with Constantine and didn't RE-emerge till   
   -- I don't know -- the Quakers?   
      
   >>> mere Wicca,   
   >>   
   >>I'd worry.   
   >   
   > Why?   
   >   
   > "An it harm none, do what thou wilt" -- you'd come to no harm.   
      
   Unless what I did/thought was defined as "harm" by the Wiccans...   
      
   >>> mere ethical humanism,   
   >>   
   >>It TALKS a good game, but I think it's inherently unstable and would   
   >>MUTATE into something else, possibly/probably very nasty.   
   >   
   > But not in the imaginary land on the other side of the wardrobe, where   
   > everyone is *sincere* in their beliefs, and practises what they   
   > preach.   
      
   Being sincere in one's beliefs doesn't mean those beliefs can never   
   change or be discarded. Lots of people SINCERELY believe in X, Y, and Z,   
   then find their beliefs shattered by some life-event or new piece of   
   information. I do not believe ethical humanism is stable.   
      
   >>> or mere communism?   
   >>   
   >>I'd worry. Very bad record wherever and whenever it's been in power.   
   >   
   > But we're not talkingh about its record.   
      
   But its record shows how its beliefs are put into action. Class-enemies   
   and anti-revolutionaries are not REFORMED by communists, they are   
   removed. Permanently.   
      
   > We're talking about an   
   > imagineary land on the other side of a wardrobe where everyone is   
   > *sincere* about what they believe and practise what they preach.   
   >   
   > So there would be a society in which they would practise "from each   
   > according to his ability, to each according to his need".   
   >   
   > So it seems that you are very quick to abandon your stipulations for   
   > imaginary worlds, and your imaginary worlds would be very   
   > inconsistent.   
      
   You're confusing sincere belief with perfect/omniscient APPLICATION of   
   sincere belief. My imaginary lands contain sincere humans, not sincere   
   angels. Communists who sincerely believe in "from each according to his   
   ability" are JUSTIFIED, by their sincere belief, in punishing those who   
   do NOT -- again in their sincere belief -- contribute according to their   
   ability. Christians who sincerely believe that homosexuality is sinful*,   
   that women's place is subordinate*, that heresy is of the devil*, etc are   
   similarly justified in THEIR punishment -- and more -- of homosexuals,   
   "uppity" women, heretics, etc.   
      
   *All these can be -- and have been -- justified from scripture.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)