XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: joseph@nospam.com   
      
   > Who are you to claim freedom-of-will enough to push your friend, who is   
   > carrying the ring, into the flames in order to destroy it and save all.   
      
   You miss my point. The point isn't whether I *could* have done it. The point   
   is whether I *should* have done it.   
      
   In another thread, folks are debating whether it was proper for Gandalf to   
   threaten Gollum in order to gain vital information which would help avert   
   catastrophe. I say heck yes and more! It would have been proper for Sam to   
   shove Frodo into the fires of Mount Doom in order to avert that same   
   catastrope. I'm not saying he *could* have done it. But I am asserting that   
   he this would indeed have been the proper thing for him to do at that point,   
   if he *could* have done it.   
      
   Think about it...   
      
   - Joseph   
      
   "Zip"  wrote in message   
   news:diassf$sfo$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...   
   > "Joseph"  wrote...   
   >   
   >> > Can you love your enemy and still kill him?   
   >>   
   >> Your enemy? How about your friend?   
   >>   
   >> You are standing at the lip of the rocky outcrop above the fires of Mount   
   >> Doom. Your friend and mentor has failed his mission, unable to discard   
   >> the   
   >> evil ring of power. The world teerters over the abyss of Evil and the   
   >> fate   
   >> of the world is in your hands.   
   >>   
   >> Do you bite Frodo's finger off and hurl it into the fires? Or failing   
   > that,   
   >> do you at least attempt to push Frodo, together with the ring, into the   
   >> fires?   
   >>   
   >> I hope so.   
   >>   
   >> Think about it...   
   >   
   > On the surface it looks like a simple choice... But this is Tolkien, and   
   > the   
   > ring of power is no mere object.   
   >   
   > It exerts influence on those around it. Particularly on the one who   
   > carries   
   > it.   
   >   
   > In trying to figure out why Elrond did not simply force Isildur to throw   
   > the   
   > ring into the flames of Mount Doom, one can only conclude that the   
   > influence   
   > of the ring was so strong, that he could not bring himself to stop Isildur   
   > from walking off with it... Afterall, the Ring of Power protects itself by   
   > ingratiating itself with the owner and the others near it...   
   >   
   > Everything about the way the One Ring works defeats that possibility.   
   > Because deep down in your heart, you *want* the ring. You don't *want* to   
   > destroy it... You want to *keep* it. It is *yours*.   
   >   
   > So when your friend fails in his mission, you are *glad* because the ring   
   > survives, and maybe soon it will be your turn to carry it.   
   >   
   > Subconciously, I believe, this is why Elrond didn't simply shove Isildur   
   > into the flames, and similarly why Sam, seeing Frodo waver, didn't   
   > immediately toss his friend in for the greater good. They weren't strong   
   > enough...   
   >   
   > Who are you to claim freedom-of-will enough to push your friend, who is   
   > carrying the ring, into the flames in order to destroy it and save all.   
   >   
   > Those are big words.   
   >   
   > -Paul.   
   >   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)