XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis   
   From: toomuchspam@spammer.org   
      
   Steve Hayes wrote:   
      
   [cut]   
      
   > So if one wants to postulate a world in which "everyone practised mere   
   > Christianity", regardless of culture or context, one is left with   
   > little but the Christian virtues of modesty, humility, patience and   
   > love.   
      
   Also honesty.   
      
   > And in most ages in our world people have recognised that   
   > practically nobody had practised them all the time, and those people   
   > who have managed to practise most of them most of the time, with fewer   
   > lapses than the rest of us, have been regarded as Saints with a   
   > capital S.   
   >   
   > What is absurd is Siwel Naph's apparent belief that things like   
   > torturing other people are compatible with the practise of these   
   > virtues.   
      
   Sorry, I meant to reply to the previous point you made about that.   
      
   >> But I've never castigated its inhabitants for not practising MC: I've   
   >> simply said that torture and persecution are compatible with MC.   
   >   
   > And there I must say I diagree profoundly.   
   >   
   > That would only apply to masochists, if they sincerely believed that in   
   > torturing people they were treating them as they themselves would like   
   to > be treated.   
      
   Again you're misunderstanding "Do as you would be done by." Non-heretics   
   did sincerely believe that if they too became heretics, they too should   
   be tortured. "The law that applies to you also applies to me. But I   
   haven't broken the law."   
      
   [cut]   
      
   > Do you sincerely believe that it is possible to love your enemies and   
   > still torture them?   
   >   
   > Really?   
      
   Really. When Christians sincerely believe in Hell and sincerely believe   
   heretics are headed there, it's their duty to do whatever they can,   
   within law, to save them or make an example of them to deter others.   
   Torture and cruel punishment were both within Christian law, and some re-   
   converted heretics were infinitely grateful for it.   
      
   > One can imagine a world in which everyone practises virtues to   
   > perfection, but to imagine that the practice of these virtues cauases   
   > their opposite is absurd.   
      
   No, it isn't: it has happened. It is not loving to allow an infection of   
   heresy to spread and send more and more people to ultimate ruin in Hell.   
      
   I'm interested to know: Do you believe in Hell in the traditional sense?   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)