XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: joseph@nospam.com   
      
   "Stan Brown"  wrote in message   
   news:MPG.1db388b5bbead0b6989966@news.individual.net...   
   > For Gandalf to torture Gollum to obtain information is orc work.   
      
   For crying out loud, who said anything about torture? Where is it even   
   implied? Gollum was such a snivelling little jerk, that even just   
   threatening a smack, or slipping a shackle around his throat with the threat   
   of incarceration would have certainly done the trick. Personally, I thought   
   the scene in the movie which framed Gollum as a 'tough-guy' who had to be   
   tortured in order to reveal what he knew about the the ring's whereabouts   
   just didn't ring true with Gollum's snivelling personality.   
      
   > For Sam to push Frodo into the Sammath Naur would be right not only   
   > because it would be the only way to save the world but because it   
   > would be the only way to save Frodo himself. Whether he could have   
   > done it is an open question, as you suggest.   
      
   Agreed.   
      
   - Joseph   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)