XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: joseph@nospam.com   
      
   "Morgil"   
   > You disagree with what?   
      
   I disagree with your original assertion that the issue of 'the weakness of   
   men' is an innovation of the movie makers and does not stem from Tolkien's   
   writings. It does. Pointing out that either other races had their own   
   weaknesses, or that certain men were able to overcome their own personal   
   challenges (i.e. Faramir) doesn't destroy this position. Tolkien's theme was   
   as follows:   
      
   It was time for the race of Men to inherit ME. In order for them to grow   
   into the position of responsible custodians of ME, and of their own destiny,   
   they would have to *earn* ME, not have it handed to them on a silver   
   platter. The task at hand would be for *men* to overcome their own weakness   
   for power and thereby earn the custodianship of ME. This theme is inherent   
   in the basic argument of Tolkien's LOTR. This is *not* an invention of the   
   movie.   
      
   Elrond didn't compel Isildur to destroy the ring, because that wouldn't have   
   acheived the stated goal (Tolkien's goal). The goal was never to simply have   
   the ring destroyed, but rather to have *man* destroy the ring.   
      
   What makes the ending so interesting is the question of whether this goal   
   was acheived. Ultimately, Frodo did the absolute best that he could and   
   despite not being perfect, Tolkien decides that that was good enough!   
   There's a lesson in there as well...   
      
   - Joseph   
      
    wrote in message   
   news:dicks4$13m$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...   
   > Joseph wrote:   
   >>>Movie-ism. Gandalf makes it quite clear in the book that   
   >>>the Ring was even more dangerous for those who held great   
   >>>power themselves. He himself would not take it even for   
   >>>safekeeping.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> I disagree. Gandalf had the strength NOT to take the ring!   
   >   
   > You disagree with what? Gandalf did not take the Ring because   
   > he was wise enough to know that it was too strong for him.   
   > But what would be your advice to Isildur, Elrond and Cirdan?   
   > Are you saying they should have left the Ring to lie there,   
   > since taking it would be a sign of inherent weakness? They   
   > would have to take it first if they wanted to destroy it,   
   > so how would you have solved this dilemma?   
   >   
   >  True strength   
   >> should not be measured as the ability to withstand *external* pressures   
   >> and forces. True strength is the ability to control *one's own* drives   
   >> and desires. Gandalf had this strength. That was Tolkien's point.   
   >   
   > So did Faramir, and Faramir was... wait for it - a Man!   
   >   
   > Morgil   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)