XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: joseph@nospam.com   
      
   "Morgil"   
   > Of course it does. If Faramir could resist the Ring...   
      
   I don't think you understand the Ring's power. Resisting the ring is not a   
   one-shot affair, it's a lifelong labor. Could Frodo resist the ring?   
   Initially yes. He actually held it in his hand and offerred it to Gandalf.   
   But in the end, it defeated him. To his credit, Faramir overcame his own   
   initial desire for the ring and with was able to send Frodo to continue on   
   his journey. But don't for a minute think that Faramir could have withstood   
   the ring for any significant length of time. Given the ring's power and his   
   initial inclination to possess it, I'd give him about 12 hours with it   
   before it consumed him.   
      
   Your assessment that Isildur's weakness is somehow not consistent with   
   mankind's general weakness in this respect, is not consistent with Tolkien's   
   scenario. In Tolkien's scenario, the Elves and Dwarves escaped the power of   
   all of their rings, while men succumbed to all of theirs! If that doesn't   
   suggest some greater inherent weakness toward the ring, on the part of   
   mankind, then I don't know what does.   
      
   - Joseph   
      
   "Morgil"  wrote in message   
   news:dics9a$2fu$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...   
   > Joseph wrote:   
   >> "Morgil"   
   >>   
   >>>You disagree with what?   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> I disagree with your original assertion that the issue of 'the weakness   
   >> of men' is an innovation of the movie makers and does not stem from   
   >> Tolkien's writings. It does. Pointing out that either other races had   
   >> their own weaknesses, or that certain men were able to overcome their own   
   >> personal challenges (i.e. Faramir) doesn't destroy this position.   
   >   
   > Of course it does. If Faramir could resist the Ring, then there   
   > could not have been an "inherent weakness" that all Men share,   
   > which would force Isildur to fall into Ring-temptation, and what   
   > we are left with is Isildur's *personal* weakness that caused it.   
   > That Isildur failed because "Men are weak", is a movie invention,   
   > as is the bizarre human-hating Elrond who says such things.   
   >   
   > Morgil   
      
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