XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: spamgard@blueyonder.co.uk   
      
   Stan Brown  wrote:   
   > On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 21:47:02 -0400 in rec.arts.books.tolkien, Joseph   
   > favored us with...   
   >> "Stan Brown"  wrote in message   
   >> news:MPG.1db388b5bbead0b6989966@news.individual.net...   
   >>> For Gandalf to torture Gollum to obtain information is orc work.   
   >>   
   >> For crying out loud, who said anything about torture?   
   >   
   > Gandalf did, actually. "I put the fear of fire on him, and wrung the   
   > true story out of him, bit by bit."   
   >   
   > Note that it was the _threat_ of torture, rather than actual torture.   
   > But still Gollum suffered: "... together with much snivelling and   
   > snarling. He thought he was misunderstood and ill-used."   
   >   
   > Was Gandalf too harsh, given the circumstances? I guess not. But the   
   > big question is what Gandalf would have done if the "fear of fire"   
   > had not been enough to loosen Gollum's tongue. Would he actually have   
   > burned him? I hope not.   
      
   You do the old ice lolly trick.   
      
   "This fire is so hot it will sear your nerve endings, and it will merely   
   feel cold at first. Soon it will begin to hurt, in pain indescribable,   
   and you will smell your flesh burning..."   
      
   [apply ice lolly to victim (who is blindfolded or looking the wrong   
   way); burn a steak; apply more ice lollies]   
      
   Et voila! Answers galore.   
      
   [OK, I saw it a film, I don't really have a manual of torture or   
   anything]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)