XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: joseph@nospam.com   
      
   "Tamim"   
   > You don't get a code of morality that says that torture is wrong ín all   
   > circumstances?   
      
   Oh I get it alright. I just don't think most people think it through,   
   because thankfully, in their lives they never have to.   
      
   From a logical standpoint, I just happen to find it immoral to weigh the   
   deaths of millions of innocents on one side, against the torture of one   
   guilty individual on the other, and to come to the conclusion that it's   
   better for millions to die. Don't get me wrong, I think that the necessary   
   act of torture would in some way debase the one who had to carry it out, but   
   nonetheless it would have to be done. (It's a dirty job, but somebody's got   
   to do it.) Hopefully, it would not affect the individual permanently.   
      
   It would be pretty much the same if an individual would have to kill someone   
   in self-defense. Unfortunate to have to kill someone, but in order to   
   preserve the lives of innocents it would simply have to be done.   
      
   But that's just me. Ultimately, let's hope and pray we never see a situation   
   where the issue becomes remotely relevant.   
      
   - Joseph   
      
   "Tamim"  wrote in message   
   news:dielcb$htp$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...   
   > In rec.arts.books.tolkien Joseph  wrote:   
   >   
   >> I don't get your code of morality. If an individual suffers because his   
   >> poor   
   >> behavior doesn't conform to proper conduct (e.g. prisoner goes to   
   >> prison),   
   >> who's fault is that?   
   >   
   >   
   > snip   
   >   
   >> So if Gollum wouldn't give Gandalf the information he needed, and   
   >> subsequently suffered fear of harsh interrogation how is that suffering   
   >> Gandalf's responsibility? Gollum brought it upon himself.   
   > snip   
   >   
   > (about actually using fire)   
   >   
   >> I guess he'd have done what he had to do. The choice of whether to suffer   
   >> would have been Gollum's. But in any event, it never went that far.   
   >   
   >   
   > You don't get a code of morality that says that torture is wrong ín all   
   > circumstances? Not everybody would agree (even I don't fully), but it's a   
   > pretty common view:), and if you don't understand why many (most) people   
   > have that code of morality, I don't get you.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)