XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis   
   From: toomuchspam@spammer.org   
      
   Steve Hayes wrote:   
      
   > But would such things happen in these imaginary lands where people   
   > *practised* "mere Buddhism" and "mere Christianity"?   
   >   
   > It seems to me that what Siwel Naph is trying to say is that in either   
   > case the cure not only fails to cure the disease, but actually causes   
   > it; that there is something in the teachings of both Buddhism and   
   > Christianity that not only fails to prevent such behaviour, but sets   
   > it off.   
      
   In a sense, yes. "Men never commit evil so completely and happily as when   
   they do it from religious conviction." -- Pascal.   
      
   > Now Siwel Naph seems to be (in the case of his "mere Christianity"   
   > world) not merely denying the disputable water, but saying that it is   
   > the same as the dirt, or rather that the water produces the dirt. In   
   > other words, feeling exquisite happiness in skinning a cat is the   
   > expected and positive result of perfect love.   
      
   I thought we'd covered this.   
      
   > In a world where everyone genuinely loved one another, with no   
   > reserve, no dissimulation, and hate were banished, they would still   
   > treat one another with hideous cruelty.   
      
   I said previously:   
      
   "When Christians sincerely believe in Hell and sincerely believe heretics   
   are headed there, it's their duty to do whatever they can, within law, to   
   save them or make an example of them to deter others. Torture and cruel   
   punishment were both within Christian law, and some re-converted heretics   
   were infinitely grateful for it."   
      
   You didn't reply or point out any flaws in this reasoning, which underlay   
   what Christians did to each other in the past.   
      
   > Now to me this seems rather like the ideologies in George Orwells   
   > "1984" -- "war is peace and peace is war". Siwel Naph seems to be   
   > saying that "love is hate and hate is love".   
      
   Torture to prevent damnation is not hate.   
      
   > So there is a failure to communicate.   
   >   
   > Either Siwel Naph has failed to see the logical inconsistencies in   
   > his/her postulated imaginary world, or I have failed to see the   
   > logical consistencies in it, and so we've been going round in circles.   
      
   If you think the above reasoning is logically consistent, maybe we've now   
   stopped.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)