XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien, alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books   
   XPost: rec.arts.books.childrens   
   From: news@pointerstop.ca   
      
   nystulc@cs.com wrote:   
      
   > Steuard Jensen wrote:   
   >> On to some details...   
   >>   
   >> > > In LWW, as you point out, Tumnus seems entirely unfamiliar with   
   >> > > human beings: there are clearly none in Narnia at the time, and   
   >> > > Tumnus's bookshelf includes titles like "Is Man a Myth?".   
   >>   
   >> > He, himself, has never seen a human.  Nonetheless, as you point out, at   
   >> > least two books on his shelf deal with humans.   
   >>   
   >> Right, but I was pointing out that title in particular: not only does   
   >> Tumnus have no experience with humans, but there is apparently a   
   >> widespread belief that humans weren't even real.   
   >   
   > Clearly, humans ARE real.  Any contrary belief that may be published in   
   > one of Tumnus' books is erroneous.   
      
   Only in hindsight.  There's no reason to suppose that Humans ever existed in   
   Narnia.   
      
   > The book is not about whether Other   
   > Worlds are real.  It is about whether Humans are real.  Presumably, any   
   > debate concerns their existence in their own world.  There are no   
   > humans in NARNIA, but, as Tumnus makes clear, Narnia is a country with   
   > defined borders within that world.   
   >   
   > If I ask "Is Bigfoot a myth?" or "Is King Arthur a myth?" or "Are   
   > Elephants a myth", the answer may be "yes" or "no", but would not   
   > generally be understood to refer to other planets.  Clearly, this *at   
   > least* implies that Humans have existed in that world before, since the   
   > population HAS heard of them.   
      
   No, it doesn't.  You appear to be suggesting that simply _because_ we ask if   
   Bigfoot is a myth, there really must be a bigfoot.  Tumnus knows of a   
   prophecy, that Man (at least "Sons of Adam, Daughters of Eve") will come to   
   Narnia and sit on the thrones at Caer Paravel.  The fact that this prophecy   
   exists is sufficient to prompt the question "Is Man a Myth?".   
      
   > Tumnus is watching the western border of Narnia, for humans, on Jadis'   
   > orders.  Where does Tumnus think the humans are going to come from?   
      
   As I recall, Tumnus is just reacting to a general proclamation that Jadis is   
   to be informed of any humans seen in the woods.  Our local Wildlife   
   officials like to be informed of any cougars seen in the woods, too.   
   Though officially they consider cougars in Nova Scotia to be a myth (with   
   somewhat more physical evidence in the cougars' favor than in the case of   
   humans in Narnia).   
      
   > When the Witch meets Edmund, she first determines he is human, and then   
   > demands to know "How did you enter my dominions?"  Note the implication   
   > of the wording: she does not ask how he came into that World, merely   
   > how he got past her borders.   
      
   Jadis, having once _been_ to our world, knows very well where he came _from_   
   - it's the "how" that interests her.  If she really wondered how he got   
   there from somewhere else on the same planet, the obvious answer would be   
   that he walked.  It's not as if there's much chance she could have the   
   whole border watched - even if some of the trees _are_ on her side.   
   --   
   derek   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)