XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien, alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books   
   XPost: rec.arts.books.childrens   
   From: news@pointerstop.ca   
      
   nystulc@cs.com wrote:   
      
   > Derek Broughton wrote:   
   >   
   >> > In LWW, it turns out that Man is not a myth.  That implies either that   
   >> > Men have been in that world before, or alternatively, that inhabitants   
   >> > of that world have journeyed to the World of Men.   
   >>   
   >> But it doesn't - the prophecy is all that is needed to raise the question   
   >> of myth or reality.   
   >   
   > The term "myth" does not generally refer to prophesies of the future,   
      
   What's that got to do with anything?  You've said that the question arises   
   because there must have been humans in Narnia in the past.  No, there only   
   needed to be the _prophecy_ (in the past) that humans would be in Narnia in   
   the future.   
      
   > but to stories of the past; and anyway, you are once again ignoring the   
   > "legends" of "men, monks and gamekeepers".  Does the prophesy predict   
   > that the four thrones will be held by monks and gamekeepers?   
      
   I'm ignoring "men, monks, and gamekeepers" because I can't see what that   
   says about _anything_.  OK, Monks and Gamekeepers aren't mythological,   
   which would argue against mythical status for Men, but they also aren't   
   related in any other way that makes sense to me, so it seems it could just   
   as easily be the collected works of the Narnian Ogden Nash.   
   >   
   > Tumnus says he has "taken service" with the White Witch.  Tumnus says   
   > he is "in the pay" of the White Witch. You are now quibbling, on the   
   > basis of no evidence, as to the timing and frequency of payment.   
      
   No, I was quibbling on the basis of not recalling any such statement.  If he   
   actually said that, I retract :-)   
   >   
   > But that does not seem to be what you are claiming.  You are merely   
   > insisting that LLW does not offer absolute proof of humans in other   
   > nations.  Her orders to Tumnus need not be interpreted that she is   
   > guarding her borders against human entry from outside.  Local Legends   
   > about "Men Monks and Gamekeepers," and other lore about humans, could   
   > just be made-up stories inspired by the prophesy.  The princes "from   
   > those parts" who desire Lucy as their Queen could merely be Mermen or   
   > Mountain Dwarfs.  The kings of countries beyond the sea who send   
   > ambassadors seeking Susan's hand could be giant kings or werewolf   
   > kings.  Stuff like that.   
      
   Not quite.  I don't even see that presence of humans elsewhere on the planet   
   makes a difference.  imo, Jadis _expected_ the Sons of Adam/Daughters of   
   Eve to come from our world - she's been there before, after all.  There   
   have probably never been humans in Narnia, even if they exist elsewhere in   
   that world.   
   --   
   derek   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)