XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books.tolkien
From: no@no.com
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 04:35:19 +0000 (UTC), Katie Schwarz wrote:
> In article <1176346580.772391.13260@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> wrote:
>>Seems to me that the Calormenes are clearly intended to be fictional.
>>They are pagans (clearly unlike the Muslems, and I am quite certain
>>Lewis understands the difference). Their culture seems inspired by
>>(1) Babylonian, (2) Persian, (3) perhaps Muslim, and (perhaps most
>>importantly) (4) the modern secular West.
>
> I'd say (1), (2), of course; (3) if there's anything specifically
> Muslim, as opposed to Arab,
Right!
> I don't know what it is; and (4) not at all
> importantly. Unless you're thinking of _The Last Battle_ where the Ape
> and the Tarkaan seem to have a program of industrialization and cutting
> down forests for profit. But that bit feels rather forced into the
> story to me. It's like, industrialization is Evil; Calormen is Evil;
> therefore they're the same. I'm not convinced.
It felt a little odd to me too. But remember, this was written well before
the 1960s: a protest in an Old Growth logging operation was not yet a
modern trope.
The Chronicles span a lot of centuries. HORSE is concurrent with the
Pevensies' rule in Narnia, and Calormene is a place of dull fishing
villages and elaborate city etiquette (I don't recall what they wanted to
DO with the pesky countries on their northern border). Eustace's hope for
railways and such was centuries later (and may have been unreliable). By
the century of LAST BATTLE, Calormene might have developed arts of Mordor.
In LAST BATTLE, Emeth believes in Tash (an idealized version, presumably)
but the Calormenes in charge do not believe in either god: "No MORE than
Aslan?" quoting from memory.
>>... Hence, Lewis is suggesting to his
>>target audience (English children) that they live in enemy territory,
>>and if they would seek out a more wholesome environment, community,
>>and value system, they must undertake similar spiritual journeys, and
>>make similar sacrifices, to that of Aravis, Shasta, Hwin and Bree.
>
> Yes, undoubtedly, "journey out of enemy territory" is a valid reading.
> But this reading doesn't require Calormen=England. Quite the opposite,
> Lewis is constantly pointing out how exotic the setting is to the
> reader. What do we see in Calormen?
>
> -- Most obviously, slavery, which to an English child would be obviously
> horrible *and* obviously could only happen long ago and far away. An
> extreme divide between rich and poor, with fanciful luxuries for the rich:
> like baths of asses' milk, which the reader probably never heard of before.
> Noblemen have strange status symbols, like dyeing their beards.
> Certainly no mass-produced consumer products marketed to the proles.
Not in HORSE. But by LAST BATTLE, the Ape was getting bananas from
somewhere, presumably through Calormene, on their roads.
> -- An absolute dictatorship where the king has the cook killed if he
> doesn't like his dinner, and people are forced to pretend they think
> he's going to live forever. Also, the story doesn't say explicitly,
> but he's unlikely to have 18 sons without a big harem. Exotic again.
>
> -- Fathers forcing their daughters to marry at a young age -- something
> that is explained explicitly, *because* it's different from what the
> reader is used to.
Again, that was in HORSE, during the Pevensies' reign. We don't know it was
still going on centuries later, in BATTLE.
>
> -- Flowery, elaborate, formal language with many circumlocutions, much
> different from Shasta's "normal" speech (and must have been tremendous
> fun to write!). And noble youths are trained in storytelling, which is
> specifically contrasted with English schools: "people wanted to hear
> the stories, but nobody wants to read the essays".
A very Lewisian touch: even the bad culture has some good features.
>>The identification of Calormene with modern England was introduced as
>>early as VOYAGE OF THE DAWN TREADER, where Eustace, the rotten child
>>of "Modern" "Up-To-Date" Parents, and a champion of their "Modern" "Up-
>>To-Date" values, rages about how backward and barbaric the Narnians
>>are. In one of the diary scribblings he has favorable things to say
>>about Calormen, which (to his mind) seems the least backward of all
>>these nations. The reason why is obvious: Calormene is most like
>>modern Britain.
>
> Wellll, they are said to have more trade and wealth than Narnia, which
> is what Eustace approves, but at that point they're mainly
> characterized by *slavery*, and by elaborate formal language. Even
> Eustace of the beginning of the book wouldn't actually enjoy Calormen,
> he's just rooting for them because they're against Narnia and so is
> he.
Wishful thinking perhaps. He's assuming that the Narnian world is like ours
in having some 'advanced' countries somewhere, where he can find railroads
and telegraph home. On that assumption, a nation with trade and wealth
would be at least the place to start.
> In short, Calormen is a fairy-tale land, which is morally inferior to
> Narnia in different ways than England is. England is represented by
> England, in the beginning/end bits of _Dawn Treader_ and _The Silver
> Chair_.
Mm. Things were never quite so neat. HORSE does seem to have a lot of
cultural/climate contrasts we'd find between England (or Europe) and the
Middle East.
Bree
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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