XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: opusthepenguin+usenet@gmail.com   
      
   (nystulc@cs.com) wrote:   
   > Opus the Penguin wrote:   
   >> John W. Kennedy (jwkenne@attglobal.net) wrote:   
   >> > You could probably find Moon-landing deniers, too.   
   >> > Nevertheless, educated Christians, and Lewis in particular,   
   >> > still know that Islam believes in the same God that Jews and   
   >> > Christians do.   
   >>   
   >> I am an educated Christian. I deny that. I believe Lewis would   
   >> too.  Christians believe in a God who is Father, Son, and Holy   
   >> Spirit--three distinct persons, one God. They stipulate that   
   >> there is no other God.   
   >   
   > Lewis was not merely educated but also fairly intelligent.  He   
   > would surely have realized that your argument proves far too much.   
   >  Not only does it prove that Muslims do not worship the same God   
   > as the Christians, but neither did the Jews of the Old Testament.   
      
   That's not true at all. The Jews of the Old Testament worshiped God   
   who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They did not know him fully as   
   such because he had not yet fully revealed himself in his Son. But it   
   is not as though the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob suddenly   
   *became* triune.   
      
      
   > Congratulations, you have just turned Adam & Eve, Noah, Abraham,   
   > Isaac, Jacob, and Moses into Heathen Idolators.  You have also   
   > turned Jesus into a liar.   
   >   
      
   Adam and Eve worshiped the God and hoped in the Seed of the Woman who   
   was to come--Christ. Noah worshiped God as the gracious Savior and   
   was himself a type of the One who was to come. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,   
   and Moses worshiped the God who made promises to Abraham "and to his   
   Seed" which Paul tells us is Christ.   
      
   Now when Christ, the fulfilment of all those promises and types   
   appears, there is only the choice of worshiping him or of rejecting   
   the God who sent him.   
      
      
   > Lewis was not so narrow in his thinking, and would have rejected   
   > this logic.  One need not perfectly understand the nature of God   
   > to nonetheless have SOME understanding of Him.   
      
   I don't disagree with that. Everyone has some understanding of God.   
      
      
   > Indeed, Lewis was   
   > even willing to allow that one might sometimes find a more-or-less   
   > genuine glimpse of God even in the pagan imagination.   
   >   
      
   I don't disagree with that either.   
      
      
   > Those who actually believe in God have no difficulty believing   
   > that different people in genuine contact with the same God may   
   > have different, and occasionally inaccurate, views of Him.   
   >   
      
   That's also true. The question is at what point does the human   
   imagination so corrupt that view that the worship offered is not to   
   the true God but to an idol?   
      
   I agree that there is a sense in which Muslims believe in the "same"   
   God as Christianity. It's like when Paul addresses the philosophers   
   on Mars Hill. He says, I'm going to tell you about this "Unknown   
   God" that you worship. And the first thing he tells them is that they   
   have totally misunderstood God and their worship is not true worship.   
      
      
   > Similarly, people who actually believe in Elephants have no   
   > difficulty believing that different blind men might describe him   
   > differently.  It is only those who do not believe in the Elephant,   
   > or want him to be something small and simple, who would tend to   
   > conclude that each blind man is either lying or describing a   
   > different Animal.   
   >   
      
   I get the impression you have a fairly detailed view of what you   
   think I think and you're responding to that. I'm not quite sure what   
   that view is.   
      
      
      
   --   
   Opus the Penguin   
   I am not the father of Anna Nicole's baby.   
   I did not poison the pet food.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)