XPost: alt.books.cs-lewis, rec.arts.books.tolkien
From: theswain@operamail.com
Bill Baldwin wrote:
> John W. Kennedy (jwkenne@attglobal.net) wrote:
>
>
>>stephen@nomail.com wrote:
>>
>>>John W. Kennedy wrote:
>>>
>>>>stephen@nomail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>John W. Kennedy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>stephen@nomail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>John W. Kennedy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>darylgene@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I would simply say,
>>>>>>>>>again, that if the concept of God has any referent it must
>>>>>>>>>have boundries. Unless you think everyone worships the same
>>>>>>>>>God you have to make distinctions. If a person is a
>>>>>>>>>Christian, no matter what they believe, just because they
>>>>>>>>>say they are, the term is meaningless, no?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I quite agree that I would be happy if such devil worshipers
>>>>>>>>as Pat Robertson and George W. Bush would stop calling
>>>>>>>>themselves "Christian", but it remains the case that if you
>>>>>>>>deny that Jews worship the same God that Christians do, your
>>>>>>>>/own/ Christianity is put into serious doubt, "for Salvation
>>>>>>>>is of the Jews".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>How exactly have you concluded that Pat Robertson and George
>>>>>>>W. Bush are devil worshipers? They seem to believe that they
>>>>>>>are worshiping the God of the Bible. Do you think that they
>>>>>>>secretly address their prayers to Satan? Or do you think
>>>>>>>that despite their belief that they are worshiping the
>>>>>>>Christian/Jewish/Muslim God that their actions indicate they
>>>>>>>are mistaken, and are instead worshiping something else?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tashlan. They have their reward.
>>>>>
>>>>>That does not really answer the question. Do you think
>>>>>Robertson and Bush think they are worshipping the
>>>>>Christian/Jewish/Muslim God, or do you think they think they
>>>>>are worshipping the Devil?
>>>
>>>>I suppose that depends on what you mean by "think". There can be
>>>>no serious doubt that Robertson believes that he is, in some
>>>>sense of historic continuity, a Christian, but the
>>>>evil-twin-of-Santa-Claus that he has in mind when he says "God"
>>>>can hardly be reconciled with that.
>>>
>>>And some people cannot reconcile the God Muslim's apparently have
>>>in mind with the Christian God they have in mind. Why are you
>>>right about Robertson and his "God", but those others are wrong
>>>about Islam and the Christian God?
>>
>>Because Moslems are a group of many, many diverse persons, some
>>wicked, some good, and some indifferent, and God only knows what
>>is in each one's heart, whereas Robertson and Bush are individuals
>>who have made their servitude to Hell quite clear.
>>
>> "Noi siam venuti al loco ov'i' t'ho detto
>> che tu vedrai le genti dolorose
>> c'hanno perduto il ben de l'intelletto."
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> That's fine, and it's a logically consistent answer. I'm not sure I
> agree, but I understand. What puzzles me is this. Maybe I lost track,
> but weren't you one of the ones who said my position was logically
> impossible because Muslims claim to worship the God who appeared to
> Abraham? But it seems you're willing to admit the validity of a
> distinction between the God a man claims to worship and the God he
> actually worships. Right?
>
> So our disagreement is over whether that distinction applies to
> Muslims, not over whether my position is logically possible. Does
> that make sense?
>
Which gets us back to the point I keep making and you keep passing over:
we aren't here discussing what a Muslim or a Christian or a Jew or any
individual believes. We're discussing RELIGIONS that have MILLIONS of
adherents and MILLENIA of history. You keep personalizing this
discussion that in origin wasn't personalized.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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