XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.bible   
   From: usenet@christrose.news   
      
   ========================================   
   Wed, 19 Nov 2025 16:08:58 -0500   
   <2l9shklkin6orc51d9c8utj6i8rt3bjidl@4ax.com>   
   "Sincerely", "soley from the Bible" and   
   "Honestly is my middle name"   
   James  wrote:   
   ========================================   
   >> Scripture itself corrects your claim, because the New Testament applies   
   >> Joel’s “call on the name of YHWH” directly to Jesus, not by accident,   
   >> not by later superstition, but by divine intention.   
   > Starting in verse 12, the context is not exact on who vs 13 is talking   
   > about. True above it talks about Jesus. But starts a new subject in vs   
   > 12. But now look at this.   
   >   
   > That same quote from Joel is found in Acts 2:21. But look at the   
   > context. Vs 17 says God, not Jesus, is talking. And God talks all the   
   > way down through vs 11. Thus vs 21 is summarizing who said those   
   > things; Jehovah. To switch to Jesus there at vs 21, would be way out   
   > of context.   
   > Thus it seems logical that it speaks of that same person in Romans.   
   >   
   > Just wait someday when they find a much older copy of Romans (or   
   > Acts), close to the original. I would bet my life that the quote of   
   > Joel would say the actual quote in Rom 10:13 and in Acts 2:21.   
      
   Your claim depends on a shift in context that the text itself never   
   permits. The Scriptures that speak most plainly refuse that shift, and   
   they force your focus back on the Lord Jesus.   
      
   Paul quotes Joel 2:32 and applies it to the risen Christ. He does this   
   inside an unbroken explanation that begins with the righteousness that   
   comes through Him (Romans 10:4). He then describes the message about Him   
   (Romans 10:8). He states that salvation comes through confessing Him as   
   Lord and believing that God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:9). He   
   repeats that same point—faith in Him saves both Jew and Greek (Romans   
   10:11). Then he explains the ground of that promise: “Everyone who calls   
   on the name of the Lord” (Romans 10:13, ESV). The pronoun does not swing   
   back up the staircase to a different subject. The entire argument flows   
   forward, not backward. Paul carries Joel’s prophecy into its fulfillment   
   in the risen Christ, who now receives the call that Joel had spoken of   
   for YHWH.   
      
   Your appeal to Acts 2 does not support your claim. Peter quotes Joel   
   2:28–32 to explain the outpouring of the Spirit. God speaks in the   
   prophecy, but Peter does not leave the hearer with only that. After   
   citing the text, he declares that God has made “this Jesus” both Lord   
   and Christ (Acts 2:36). That title “Lord” stands at the center of the   
   quotation’s meaning. Peter identifies Jesus with the Lord of Joel’s   
   promise, and he calls the crowd to call on Him with repentance and faith   
   (Acts 2:38–39). You argue that the speaker in Joel controls the identity   
   of the Lord in verse 21, but Peter’s own conclusion identifies Jesus as   
   that Lord.   
      
   Your prediction that older manuscripts will change this meaning lacks   
   any support. The earliest manuscripts already testify to these readings.   
   The wording in Romans 10:13 and Acts 2:21 stands firm across the   
   manuscript tradition. No variant alters the force of Paul’s or Peter’s   
   argument. If anything, the oldest copies only strengthen the unity   
   between the Lord spoken of in Joel and the Lord Jesus whom the apostles   
   proclaim.   
      
   Peter and Paul both apply Joel’s promise to Christ. They do this   
   intentionally. They do not misapply the Scripture. They do not confuse   
   subjects. They affirm that the One who receives the cry for salvation is   
   the Son whom God raised from the dead. You cannot sever the context   
   without severing the argument itself.   
      
      
   --   
   Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God   
   raised Him from the dead?   
      
   That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death   
   penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death   
   satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John   
   2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your   
   sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.   
      
   On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on   
   the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name   
   of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).   
      
   https://christrose.news/salvation   
      
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