XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.bible
From: usenet@christrose.news
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Thu, 20 Nov 2025 15:11:52 -0500
<3f6uhk55ta73bonnm4lh7muvuvronsuru1@4ax.com>
"Sincerely", "soley from the Bible" and
"Honestly is my middle name"
James wrote:
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>> • Paul said those who do not obey the gospel “will suffer the
>> punishment of eternal destruction” away from the Lord’s presence
(2
>> Thessalonians 1:8–9, ESV).
> Yes, notice ETERNAL DESTRUCTION, not eternal life of torment.
Lies.
Eternal destruction does not describe cessation of existence. The Greek
term olethron ai
nion carries the force of ongoing ruin, not
annihilation. It comes from olethros, a word used for judgment that
falls upon people who continue to exist under its weight (1 Corinthians
5:5; 1 Timothy 6:9). Paul used it to describe a state of irreversible
loss under God’s judgment, not a moment of non-being.
Paul also anchored this destruction in separation from the Lord’s
presence. He wrote, “away from the presence of the Lord and from the
glory of his might” (2 Thessalonians 1:9, ESV). Separation assumes
continued personal existence. A person cannot be separated from the
Lord’s presence if he no longer exists. The text describes a relational
judgment in which the sinner remains under God’s righteous wrath.
Scripture also shows degrees of judgment. Jesus said it would be “more
tolerable” for Tyre, Sidon, Sodom, and Gomorrah than for the cities that
rejected Him (Matthew 11:22, 24, ESV). Non-existence admits no degrees.
Likewise, Jesus said of Judas, “It would have been better for that man
if he had not been born” (Matthew 26:24, ESV). Non-existence and “not
being born” are equivalent states. Jesus’ statement makes sense only if
Judas faces conscious judgment whose severity outweighs even the value
of life itself.
Revelation confirms this ongoing conscious judgment. “The smoke of their
torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night”
(Revelation 14:11, ESV). Day and night describe ongoing duration, not a
single moment of disappearance. Torment cannot rise forever from those
who do not exist.
Jesus taught the same reality when He warned that in Gehenna the “fire
is not quenched” and “the worm does not die” (Mark 9:48, ESV; hell
[Gehenna]). Fire that never goes out and worms that never die speak of
sustained judgment. Perpetual conditions have no purpose if every person
vanishes.
Eternal destruction refers to an everlasting state of ruin under God’s
righteous wrath. It never means a return to nothingness. The justice of
God stands firm (Romans 1:18–32; Romans 2:4–11; Romans 3:19–20), and
those who refuse the gospel “will suffer punishment” (2 Thessalonians
1:9, ESV), not slip into oblivion.
> The Bible is very clear about who gets eternal life:
>
> -- Living Bible
> 1 John 2:17 And this world is fading away, and these evil, forbidden
> things will go with it, but whoever keeps doing the will of God will
> live forever.
the fact that only believers receive eternal life does not imply that
unbelievers cease to exist. Scripture speaks of two eternal outcomes—one
of life, the other of judgment.
Jesus said, “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the
righteous into eternal life” (Matthew 25:46, ESV; hell [Gehenna]). The
same adjective ai
nios describes both destinies. If eternal life means
unending duration for the saved, eternal punishment must mean unending
duration for the lost. It does not permit one eternal and the other
temporary.
John wrote that the world and its desires pass away, but “whoever does
the will of God abides forever” (1 John 2:17, ESV). That promise applies
to those who obey the gospel and trust Christ. But Scripture also
reveals an eternal judgment for those who do not. The author of Hebrews
called it “eternal judgment” (Hebrews 6:2, ESV). Judgment cannot be
eternal if the judged no longer exist.
Paul taught the same truth. Those who reject the gospel “will suffer the
punishment of eternal destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9, ESV). Eternal
destruction never means annihilation. It describes irreversible ruin
under God’s wrath, “away from the presence of the Lord” (2 Thessalonians
1:9, ESV), which requires conscious personal existence.
Jesus confirmed conscious, unending judgment when He said the fire of
Gehenna “is not quenched” and “the worm does not die” (Mark 9:48, ESV;
hell [Gehenna]). Fire that never goes out and worms that never die serve
no purpose if the person is gone.
Revelation shows the same reality. “The smoke of their torment goes up
forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night” (Revelation
14:11, ESV). Torment that rises forever cannot come from people who
cease to exist.
Eternal life is a gift of grace through Christ’s death and resurrection.
Eternal judgment is the righteous consequence for refusing Him.
Scripture clearly distinguishes the two, but it makes both everlasting.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God
raised Him from the dead?
That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death
penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.
On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).
https://christrose.news/salvation
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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