[continued from previous message]   
      
   everyone who rejects God's love and mercy in providing Christ as a   
   propitiating atonement for men's sins.   
      
   Why do you seek to encourage people that they may REJECT God's offer of   
   salvation from conscious, eternal torment, then tell people they can   
   still escape conscious eternal torment WITHOUT trusting Christ as Savior?   
      
   Why do you BLASPHEME God, comparing Him to "Hitler" when He demonstrated   
   His love for the world by offering everyone an escape from eternal,   
   conscious torment through faith in Christ? Why do you then INSIST men   
   can REJECT God's love in Christ and still escape conscious eternal   
   torment? You blaspheme God contrary to every revealed fact in the gospel!   
      
      
   >> Further, when Revelation is using symbols and does not say they are   
   >> “like” or “as,” it offers an explanation of what it literally   
   means. For   
   >> example,   
   >>   
   >>       "the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches"   
   >>        (Revelation 1:20, ESV)   
   >>   
   >>       "the seven lampstands are the seven churches" (Revelation 1:20,   
   >   
   > OK.   
      
      
   You say "OK", yet fail to apply that to your own claims. When Revelation   
   speaks symbolically, it explains the meaning of the symbols. The   
   passages which say the lost will be thrown into the lake of fire don't   
   say "symbolically", or then explain that "fire", "torment", "day and   
   night", "forever and ever" ACTUALLY mean the exact opposite: "no   
   torment", and "instant cessation of existence"?   
      
      
   >>        ESV)   
   >>   
   >>       "the great prostitute sits on many waters, and the waters are   
   >>        peoples and multitudes and nations and languages" (Revelation   
   >>        17:1; 17:15, ESV)   
   >   
   > But it doesn't define the Great Harlot.   
      
      
   Do you actually believe yourself when you say that?   
      
         “But the angel said to me, “Why do you marvel? I will tell you   
          the mystery of the woman...” (Revelation 17:7, ESV)   
      
         “the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion   
          over the kings of the earth.”” (Revelation 17:18, ESV)   
      
   You just claimed the text "doesn't define the Great Harlot". It clearly   
   does. It says she is a city that influences the kings of the earth. Yet   
   you boldly proclaim the opposite. Your judgment is either so impaired   
   that you can no longer discern the difference between your own   
   imagination and what the Bible says, or you're a desperate liar who   
   knows what he is doing, but feigns innocence to help lead people astray.   
      
   I said the Bible offers an explanation about the meaning of the symbol,   
   if it is to be understood as symbolic. Revelation 17:7 directly states   
   gives an explanation for the woman. She is a city that has dominion over   
   the kings of the earth.   
      
   Now, show me all the passages which say "fire that shall not be   
   quenched", "worm that does not die", "torment" that prevents rest "day   
   and night forever and ever", is ACTUALLY a symbol that means the instant   
   cessation of existence, and therefore deliverance from conscious eternal   
   torment of those who reject Christ as Savior. You can't and won't,   
   because the Bible DOES NOT SAY WHAT YOU CLAIM. Further, YOUR views   
   flatly contradict what the Bible does state.   
      
      
   >>   
   >>       "the ten horns are ten kings" (Revelation 17:12, ESV)   
   >>   
   >>       "the fine linen stands for the righteous deeds of the saints"   
   >>        (Revelation 19:8, ESV)   
   >   
   > OK.   
   >>   
   >> These explanations show that Revelation’s symbolism never reverses its   
   >> meaning. It reveals the literal reality behind the symbol.   
   >   
   > OK.   
   >>   
   >> Revelation 20:14 states, “Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake   
   >> of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:14,   
   >> ESV; hell [Hades]).   
   >   
   > OK.   
   >   
   >> The phrase “the second death” does not mean   
   >> non-existence. It describes the final and irreversible state of   
   >> separation from God under His wrath.   
   >   
   > You mean the churches maniac god? As well of those who support it.   
      
      
   When someone offers eternal life and joy and deliverance from DESERVED   
   conscious eternal torment, that is an undeserved act of grace, love, and   
   mercy. When someone tramples that only all-sufficient atonement of   
   Christ underfoot he rejects God's only just means of delivering him.   
   There remains no other atonement by which God may justly save them from   
   lake of fire, and torment day and night, with no rest, forever and ever.   
      
      
   >>   
   >> The lake of fire was prepared for spirit beings (Matthew 25:41, ESV;   
   >> hell [Gehenna]).   
   >   
   > Hell is not Gehenna. Hell is the grave. I have showed you this many   
   > times.   
      
      
   You have been shown many times that Spirit beings are LITERAL beings.   
   Something does not become "literal" only if it operates under the   
   constraints of earth-physics material. When you claim the fire can't be   
   "literal" fire, AND THEREFORE it must be "symbolic" fire, AND THEREFORE   
   it must mean the lost simply cease to exist rather than suffer the   
   "torment" of fire, you promote a stupid lie which is completely foreign   
   to what the Bible says.   
      
   It does not have to operate under the constraints of earth-physics fire   
   in order to be literal fire. It's fire that was "prepared" for the devil   
   and his angels. So it will be fire suitable for tormenting spirit beings   
   just as earth-fire would torment those exposed to it. You've been shown   
   that many times.   
      
   You have also been shown many times and have admitted yourself, that   
   Gehenna is a place where the fire never goes out. There's no need for a   
   fire which continues burning forever and ever if there's nothing in it   
   to be burned. It would go out for lack of fuel. It is YOUR claims which   
   constantly conflict with the plain and common-sense meaning of what the   
   Bible says.   
      
      
   >> Spirit beings do not die in the sense of ceasing to   
   >> exist. The devil, the beast, and the false prophet are thrown into the   
   >> same lake, and John wrote, “They will be tormented day and night forever   
   >> and ever” (Revelation 20:10, ESV). That proves the lake of fire is the   
   >> place of ongoing conscious torment, not extinction.   
   >   
   > If the Lake of fire is literal, then how do you explain DEATH being   
   > tossed in there?   
      
      
         • You've already been shown this 100 times (can be documented).   
           Thus, your question is a lie. It is to convey the impression   
           that you've never heard the explanation which has been   
           repeatedly offered.   
      
         • Where does the text say Death is tortured, or that it does not   
           rest? Nowhere. Death is not to be confused with a personal   
           being. All the spiritually dead will be separated from God in   
           the lake of fire. Thus Death will be thrown into the lake of   
           fire.   
      
      
   >> The same lake   
   >> receives all whose names are not written in the book of life (Revelation   
   >> 20:15, ESV). The destinies must be parallel because the location is the   
   >> same.   
   >   
   > Yes, the wicked will be punished, by experiencing death. (no   
   > . Death is the worst thing that can happen to a person.   
      
      
   The Bible refers to it as the "second death", showing a distinction from   
   mere physical separation from their body (first death). Death is the   
   quality of existence which results from being separated from God, not   
   simply the death of the body. Otherwise the Bible wouldn't say that men   
   are unable to kill the soul after they have killed the body.   
      
      
   >> Revelation 14:11 gives the plainest description: “The smoke of their   
   >> torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night”   
   >> (Revelation 14:11, ESV).   
   >   
   > Actually, that verse is loaded with symbolism.   
      
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)