[continued from previous message]   
      
   Tormented day and night forever (Revelation 20:10).   
   The beast and false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire, and   
   they are still conscious a thousand years later when Satan joins them.   
   They continue forever.   
      
   Degrees of judgment (Matthew 11:24).   
   “It will be more tolerable for Sodom.” There are no degrees of   
   non-existence.   
      
   Better never to have been born (Mark 14:21).   
   A condition worse than non-existence requires continued conscious   
   experience.   
      
   FINAL CONCLUSION   
      
   Apollumi, apoleia, and olethros never mean cessation of existence. They   
   always refer to ruin experienced by someone who continues to exist. The   
   New Testament gives the clearest revelation and speaks of individual,   
   conscious, eternal ruin, not the extinction of persons. Jehovah’s   
   Witness annihilationism contradicts the Greek vocabulary and the plain   
   teaching of Scripture.   
      
      
   >> Jesus taught that Gehenna contains fire that “is not quenched” and a   
   >> worm that “does not die” (Mark 9:48, ESV; hell   
   >   
   > I love those superworms. They would be great to go fishing with. You   
   > wouldn't have to buy bait! Notice:   
      
      
   Then your solution to the plain text of the Bible is simply to mock it.   
   It says the worms that afflict the damned souls do "not die". This would   
   not be necessary if "their worm" that torments their soul did not   
   continue to exist. Yet this is the kind of deviation your view   
   constantly requires.   
      
      
   > [Gehenna]). Those images   
   >> come from Isaiah 66:24, describing ongoing, conscious disgrace. The   
   >> point of the imagery is unending judgment. Perpetual fire and undying   
   >> worms have no purpose if all the judged vanish instantly.   
   >   
   > If they stand for something, they sure are.   
      
      
   "If" what the Bible states stands for something? How are you not   
   unwittingly admitting that you dismiss what the Bible says unless it   
   agrees with what you want to hear? Any time the plain statements of   
   Scripture don't agree with your ideology, why suddenly they "don't stand   
   for anything". That would explain why you seem to think all you have to   
   do is say "symbolic", and that somehow automatically proves the Bible   
   means the opposite of what it directly states.   
      
      
   > The term “worm” also appears in an illustrative setting.   
      
      
   Heresy hermeneutics #2: Any possible alternate meaning becomes the only   
   correct meaning regardless of context, if necessary, in order to   
   maintain my preferred lies.   
      
      
   > Bildad   
   > disparagingly spoke of man as a worm (Job 25:6), and it was foretold   
   > that the Messiah would be viewed as a reproach and despicable, as a   
   > worm. (Ps 22:6) Jehovah God referred to Israel as a worm, a lowly and   
   > helpless creature, seemingly at the mercy of anyone passing by. But   
   > Jehovah assured the Israelites of his help and encouraged them not to   
   > be afraid.—Isa 41   
      
      
   Watchtower arguments collapse the moment the actual usage and context   
   are examined. To begin, the examples they give (Job 25:6; Psalm 22:6;   
   Isaiah 41:14) all refer to a *present earthly condition* of humiliation.   
   They describe how men viewed themselves or how enemies viewed them *in   
   this life*. None of these uses describe the final state of the wicked.   
   None mention death. None mention judgment. None mention fire. None   
   mention anything “not dying.” They simply express lowliness.   
      
   But Jesus’ use of “worm” in Mark 9:48 is categorically different.   
      
   Mark 9:48 (ESV)   
      
         “where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.”   
          (The ESV uses the word “hell,” but the correct term is Gehenna.)   
      
   Key facts the Watchtower argument avoids:   
      
         1. Jesus quotes Isaiah 66:24, which describes *corpses*   
            whose worms actively consume them. This is not about   
            humiliation. It is about *judgment*.   
      
         2. In Isaiah 66:24, the picture is: “their worm shall not die,   
            their fire shall not be quenched.” That is, *ongoing   
            consumption* and *ongoing burning*.   
      
         3. Jesus applies this imagery to *personal judgment* in   
            Gehenna. He is not saying “you will feel lowly like a worm.”   
            He is saying: there is no relief. The instruments of judgment   
            never stop their work.   
      
         4. If “worm” simply meant humility or humiliation, Jesus’   
            statement “their worm does not die” becomes nonsense. How does   
            a “feeling of lowliness” not die? How does a “metaphor for   
            helplessness” not die? The phrase makes no sense unless Jesus   
            is speaking of *ongoing, relentless judgment.*   
      
         5. Figurative uses in normal life cannot override Jesus’ teaching   
            on final judgment. The same is true for fire. Sometimes fire   
            is symbolic. But when Jesus says “the fire is not quenched,”   
            He is not teaching “ongoing symbolism.” He is teaching   
            *ongoing judgment* (in Gehenna).   
      
         6. Their argument proves too much. If “worm” in Job or Psalms   
            must override Jesus’ meaning, then “fire” must also mean   
            “feeling warm,” and “death” must mean “discouragement.”   
   This   
            is not interpretation. It is evasion.   
      
         7. Jesus pairs both “their worm does not die” and “the fire is   
            not quenched.” Together, they communicate *continuous divine   
            judgment*. Nothing in Job, Psalms, or Isaiah 41 adds a   
            different meaning. Those are earthly metaphors. Jesus applies   
            Isaiah 66’s *judgment-worm* imagery, not the   
            “humiliation-worm” imagery.   
      
   8. If the worm dies, the judgment ends.   
       Jesus says it does not die.   
       That means the judgment persists.   
      
   The Watchtower lumps together unrelated metaphors to escape the force of   
   Jesus’ warning. But Scripture itself separates them:   
      
   Earthly humiliation (Job 25:6) – “worm” meaning “insignificant.”   
   Messianic mockery (Psalm 22:6) – “worm” meaning “despised.”   
   Israel’s weakness (Isaiah 41:14) – “worm” meaning “helpless.”   
      
   NONE of these use “worm” in the context of divine judgment.   
      
   Divine judgment (Isaiah 66:24; Mark 9:48) – “their worm does not die.”   
   This describes *ongoing, active judgment* which does not cease. Jesus   
   applies this to Gehenna, not to humiliation, not to symbolism, and not   
   to nations.   
      
   Conclusion:   
      
   Watchtower attempts to undermine the meaning of “worm” fails because   
   they substitute earthly humiliation metaphors for Jesus’ specific and   
   authoritative warning of *ongoing judgment*. Jesus uses “worm” the way   
   Isaiah 66 uses it: the agent of judgment that never finishes its work.   
   It has nothing to do with Job 25:6, Psalm 22:6, or Isaiah 41:14.   
      
      
   > OK   
   >   
   >> The second death is final, irreversible ruin under God’s wrath—eternal   
   >> separation with no relief, not the end of personal existence. Symbols   
   >> communicate truths consistent with "Battle Loneliness by Helping Others   
      
      
   --   
   Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God   
   raised Him from the dead?   
      
   That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death   
   penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death   
   satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John   
   2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your   
   sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.   
      
   On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on   
   the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)