[continued from previous message]   
      
   >acknowledging Jesus as God to anyone who understands and believes what   
   >the Bible says.   
      
   Say again?   
   >   
   >      “This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him,   
   >       because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even   
   >       calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.”   
   >       (John 5:18, ESV)   
      
   Looks like the Jews were in to the wine too much. Just naming your   
   father, makes you equal to him?   
      
   >   
   >      “The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are   
   >       going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man,   
   >       make yourself God.”” (John 10:33, ESV)   
      
   I told you they had too much wine. But theirs was the truth (this   
   time), when you get the right translation:   
      
   (John 10:33) The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a   
   fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make   
   yourself a god.”   
      
   Now, did Jesus believe they were saying that he was Almighty God? No,   
   by way of Jesus' answer:   
      
    "34.  Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, `I said,   
   "You are gods'' '?   
    35.  "If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the   
   Scripture cannot be broken),   
    36.  "do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the   
   world, `You are blaspheming,' because I said, `I am the Son of God'?"   
   (John 10: 34-36; NKJV)   
      
   Also capitalizing God, was a breech of Greek rules. There is no   
   definite article before the word "God" here, which makes it "god".   
      
   >   
   >Jesus is God. He was both with God and was God (not "was a god") in the   
   >beginning (John 1:1-2). In Him all the fullness of the godhead dwells in   
   >bodily form (Colossians 2:9). He is our great God and Savior (Titus   
   >2:13). He is "my Lord and my God" (John 20:28). He received worship that   
   >angels reject (Revelation 22:8-9; Matthew 14:33). The Jews attempted to   
   >stone Him for making himself equal to God (John 10:33). "All things"   
   >were created through Him, not all "other" things (John 1:3; Colossians   
   >1:16). He did not consider equality with God something to cling to, but   
   >emptied Himself and became obedient to provide an atonement for our sins   
   >(Philippians 2:6-8). The disciples repeatedly equated Jesus Christ with   
   >the "Kyrios" the LXX attributed to YHWH (Romans 10:9-13; Philippians   
   >2:11; 1 Corinthians 12:3).   
      
   The oldest documents of the Septuagint, show that they DID NOT remove   
   the Tetragrammaton and replace it with "Lord". See The Fouad Papyri   
   collection (Inventory No. 266)   
      
   >   
   >   
   >>   
   >> Churches: Worship Jesus.   
   >> Bible: Worship ONLY God. (Mt 4:10)   
   >   
   >Bible: Worship Jesus (Matthew 14:33; Matthew 28:9; Hebrews 1:6;   
   >Revelation 5:11-14).   
      
   -- New American with Apocrypha   
   Matthew 14:33 Those who were in the boat did him homage, saying,   
   "Truly, you are the Son of God."   
      
   -- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha   
   Matthew 28:9 And suddenly, coming to meet them, was Jesus.   
   "Greetings," he said. And the women came up to him and, clasping his   
   feet, they did him homage.   
      
   -- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha   
   Hebrews 1:6 Again, when he brings the First-born into the world, he   
   says:   
   Let all the angels of God pay him homage.   
      
   Thus the word "worship" there is not set in stone. It is one of the   
   choices the translators made.   
      
      
   >Jesus: Received worship (John 9:38; Matthew 14:33; Matthew 28:9; Matthew   
   >28:17; Luke 24:52; Hebrews 1:6).   
      
   See right above.   
      
   WHY NOT LET JESUS SETTLE THE DISPUTE. WHO DID JESUS SAY TO WORSHIP?   
   OBSERVE:   
      
   -- New King James   
   Matthew 4:10  Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is   
   written, `You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall   
   serve.' ''   
      
   Notice "Him only" should a person worship.   
      
   Sadly, those translators are letting their personal beliefs affect   
   their translations, such as the Trinity.   
      
      
   >   
   >Watchtower: Worshiping Jesus is "proper" (The Watchtower 1898)   
      
   Please show me proof of what you said. My JW Library does not go back   
   that far.   
      
   I would like to see your churches beliefs in 1898.   
   Even in the Bible, Jesus did not tell everything to his disciples,   
   because they couldn't handle it at that time.   
   So Bible beliefs were to come GRADUALLY. Notice:   
      
   -- King James   
   Proverbs 4:18  But the path of the just is as the shining light, that   
   shineth more and more unto the perfect day.   
      
   The JW's today are either at the "perfect day", or close to it.   
      
   >   
   >Watchtower: Worshiping Jesus is not okay (The Watchtower 1964, 78, 86)   
      
   Wow, then they got that right way back in 1964, and never changed it   
   since.   
      
   >   
   >      • Jesus received worship because He possesses the full identity   
   >        and nature of God, not because the Father allows worship of a   
   >        creature. The command stands unchanged: “You shall worship the   
   >        Lord your God and him only shall you serve” (Matthew 4:10,   
      
   Yes, "and  him only shall you serve".And this is probably a partial   
   quote from Deut 10:20:   
      
   - American Standard   
   Deuteronomy 10:20  Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; him shalt thou   
   serve; and to him shalt thou cleave, and by his name shalt thou swear.   
      
   >        ESV). Scripture never loosens that command. Instead, Scripture   
   >        reveals that the Son shares the same divine glory and receives   
   >        the same worship without violating it.   
      
   Negatrons. You should never worship one of God's creations. Just God   
   only. Also notice:   
      
   17.  Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is   
   wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.   
      
   Yes, Jesus is wise etc, but the Creator of all the universe is much   
   wiser.   
      
   >   
   >      • The New Testament applies worship texts reserved for YHWH   
   >        directly to the Son. The Father commands all the angels to   
   >        worship Him: “Let all God’s angels worship him” (Hebrews 1:6,   
   >        ESV).   
      
   That word "worship" can have other meanings, as I showed you above.   
   For example:   
      
   -- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha   
   Hebrews 1:6 Again, when he brings the First-born into the world, he   
   says:   
   Let all the angels of God pay him homage.   
      
   -- Young's Bible   
   Hebrews 1:6  and when again He may bring in the first-born to the   
   world, He saith, 'And let them bow before him - all messengers of   
   God;'   
      
   DRA   
   And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he   
   saith: And let all the angels of God adore him.   
      
   NCB   
   And again, when he brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let   
   all the angels of God pay him homage.”   
      
   (Hebrews 1:6) But when he again brings his Firstborn into the   
   inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to   
   him.”   
      
   So it boils down to two things.   
   1) Those who believe the Trinity, translate "worship"   
   2) Those who don't believe the Trinity, do not translate "worship".   
      
      
   God never commands angels to worship a creature. He alone   
   >        holds the right to receive worship. If the Son receives it, He   
   >        must share the divine identity.   
      
   Logical conclusion based on a false premise. Yes, Jesus is divine ("a   
   god"), but not the Supreme God.   
      
      
   >   
   >      • People bowed before Him and addressed Him with words reserved   
   >        for God. Thomas said, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28, ESV).   
      
   Just an emotional expression. Like "rats!"   
      
      
   >        Jesus did not correct him. He affirmed it by blessing those who   
   >        believe the same confession.   
      
   There was no need to correct him, since it was an emotion of surprise.   
   Notice this reference:   
      
   "Though some claim that prayer may properly be addressed to others,   
   such as to God’s Son, the evidence is emphatically to the contrary.   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)