XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.bible   
   From: usenet@christrose.news   
      
   You insist you stand with Scripture. Then Scripture must govern every   
   claim you make, even when it cuts across Watchtower categories or Greek   
   word games. I will answer you from the text itself.   
      
   1. “God can destroy the soul, therefore the soul is not conscious after   
   judgment.”   
      
   Jesus defines the issue, not Ezekiel.   
      
         “Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.   
          Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in   
          [Gehenna].” (Matthew 10:28, ESV)   
      
   Jesus distinguishes body and soul. Men kill the body. God judges the   
   soul after bodily death. “Destroy” does not mean cease to exist. The   
   same verb appears here:   
      
         “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the   
          righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46, ESV)   
      
   Punishment lasts as long as life. If life does not end, punishment does   
   not end. There are no degrees of non-existence.   
      
   Jesus Himself adds:   
      
         “It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”   
          (Mark 14:21, ESV)   
      
   Non-existence cannot be “better” or “worse.” Conscious judgment alone   
   fits His words.   
      
   2. Ezekiel 18:4 does not teach annihilation.   
      
         “The soul who sins shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4, ESV)   
      
   In Ezekiel, “die” refers to covenant judgment and physical death, not   
   post-mortem metaphysics. You read later doctrine back into an earlier   
   text, then use it to contradict Jesus. Scripture does not allow that.   
      
   3. John 1:1 and Greek grammar.   
      
         “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and   
          the Word was God.” (John 1:1, ESV)   
      
   You argue that the absence of the article means “a god.” John   
   immediately blocks that move.   
      
         “All things were made through him, and without him was not any   
          thing made that was made.” (John 1:3, ESV)   
      
   John divides reality into two categories: things made, and the One   
   through whom they were made. There is no third category of “created   
   gods.” If the Word were created, He would belong to the class of “things   
   made.” John explicitly excludes Him.   
      
   Greek grammar never overturns context. Context governs grammar, not the   
   reverse.   
      
   4. “God is a Spirit” does not help your case.   
      
   You cited many translations of John 4:24. All of them teach essence, not   
   category.   
      
         “God is spirit.” (John 4:24, ESV)   
      
   No one understands that to mean God is one spirit among many spirits.   
   The construction describes what God is by nature. John 1:1 uses the same   
   construction for the Word. Same grammar. Same function. Same conclusion.   
      
   5. John 1:18 does not contradict the deity of Christ.   
      
         “No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s   
          side, he has made him known.” (John 1:18, ESV)   
      
   No one has seen God in His essence. That is standard biblical language.   
      
         “You cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.”   
          (Exodus 33:20, ESV)   
      
   Yet men saw the Son because the Son reveals the invisible God.   
      
         “He is the image of the invisible God.” (Colossians 1:15, ESV)   
      
   Visibility does not deny deity. It confirms revelation.   
      
   6. Colossians 1:15 does not teach that Christ was created.   
      
         “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all   
          creation.” (Colossians 1:15, ESV)   
      
         “Firstborn” describes rank and inheritance, not origin.   
      
         Israel is called God’s firstborn nation (Exodus 4:22).   
      
         David is called God’s firstborn king (Psalm 89:27).   
      
   Paul explains his own meaning in the next verse:   
      
         “For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth,   
          visible and invisible.” (Colossians 1:16, ESV)   
      
   “All things” includes every created category. Paul then adds:   
      
         “He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”   
          (Colossians 1:17, ESV)   
      
   A created being cannot exist before all things or sustain all things.   
      
   7. “The Father is greater than I” does not deny Christ’s deity.   
      
         “The Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28, ESV)   
      
   Jesus speaks from His incarnate mission, not from His eternal nature.   
      
         “Though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with   
          God a thing to be grasped.” (Philippians 2:6, ESV)   
      
   Functional submission does not equal ontological inferiority. Scripture   
   teaches both without contradiction.   
      
   8. Headship in 1 Corinthians 11:3 proves order, not essence.   
      
         “The head of Christ is God.” (1 Corinthians 11:3, ESV)   
      
   The same verse says man is head of woman. That does not make women a   
   lesser species. Authority structures do not redefine nature.   
      
   9. Worship and obeisance.   
      
   You say Jesus cannot be worshiped because He was created. Scripture   
   answers you directly.   
      
         “And when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, ‘Let   
          all God’s angels worship him.’” (Hebrews 1:6, ESV)   
      
   God forbids worship of creatures. God commands worship of the Son.   
   Scripture chooses for us.   
      
   10. Final issue: annihilation and Christ.   
      
   You claim to honor Christ, yet you deny His warnings.   
      
         “Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.”   
          (Mark 9:48, ESV)   
      
         “The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they   
          have no rest, day or night.” (Revelation 14:11, ESV)   
      
   Symbols never reverse their meaning. Fire that never goes out does not   
   teach extinction. Torment without rest does not describe non-existence.   
      
   Jesus does not offer sinners an escape from judgment. He offers   
   deliverance from it through His death and resurrection.   
      
         “Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures… he   
          was raised on the third day.” (1 Corinthians 15:3–4, ESV)   
      
   Deny conscious judgment, and you dull His warnings.   
   Deny His full deity, and you hollow out His saving work.   
      
   Scripture does neither.   
      
      
   --   
   Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God   
   raised Him from the dead?   
      
   That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death   
   penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death   
   satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John   
   2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your   
   sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.   
      
   On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on   
   the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name   
   of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)