XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.bible
From: usenet@christrose.news
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Wed, 17 Dec 2025 13:48:13 -0500
Watchtower James wrote:
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>> No one disputes that staurus means pole, fool!
Notice, he CITES me acknowledging the word "staurus" and that "staurus"
means "pole", as I have in every post on this subject. Later he PRETENDS
I tried to "get away" from the word, AS IF that would be necessary.
>> The Bible also calls
>> boats "boats", not "oars". However, only a MORON would argue that boats
>> don't have oars, because it says "boats", not "oars". Romans hung
>> patibulum on the staurus, forming a cross. Your whole argument is STUPID
>> and UNNECESSARILY DIVISIVE.
Point: That the Bible says "boat" does NOT necessitate "boat without
oars". We know the boats had oars even though they are not
mentioned:
“When evening came, his disciples went down to the sea, got into
a boat...When they had rowed about three or four miles...” (John
6:16–19, ESV)
The FACT that Bible boats had oars does not need to be stated to people
who already understood those boats had oars. Anyone who "rowed" such
boats would know that without it being stated.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Bible boats did NOT have oars
merely because it says "boat", not "oars". Likewise, there is no
evidence whatsoever that because the Bible says "staurus", it MUST ALSO
MEAN "and did NOT have a patibulum attached to it".
> Well, according to you, I'm a Moron, because not all boats have oars.
• Who said "all boats"? Not me. I said "Bible" boats. You're not
arguing against what I said, but something I did not say.
• If you have to FABRICATE false arguments in order to appear to
be refuting them, how can you claim you are merely "mistaken"
in your claims, rather than INTENTIONALLY trying to deceive
people?
• You prove the point by trying to confuse "Bible" boats with
"all" boats, then pretending that refutes the evidence.
> Since the cross predates Christianity and is a pagan symbol, it is
> amazing they did that. Instead of truth, they sought ritual to please
> the churches. They didn't please God.
• The act of bowing was used in pagan worship, yet it is commanded in
worship of the true God (Psalm 95:6; Daniel 3:5–18).
• Temples were used for pagan deities, yet God instructed Israel to
build a temple for His worship (1 Kings 6:1–38; Acts 17:24).
• Sacrifices were offered to pagan gods, yet sacrifices were also
commanded by God in the Old Testament (Leviticus 1:1–9).
• The term “gospel” (euangelion) was used in imperial Rome to
announce Caesar’s victories, yet it was adopted in the New
Testament for the message of Christ (Mark 1:1; Romans 1:16).
• Baptism was used in other religions, yet it is a Christian
ordinance instituted by Christ (Matthew 3:6; Matthew 28:19).
• The Bible refers to pagan gods as "theos" (1 Corinthians 8:5), and
also refers to the one true God as "theos" (John 1:1).
Conclusion
• Actions and things don't become pagan by association, simply
because someone who seeks to poison people's minds with lies
points out that pagans once used them.
• A "lie" remains a "lie", even when people believe it:
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that
perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that
they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them
strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:” (2
Thessalonians 2:10–11, KJV 1900)
Observe: They "believe" a "lie". The fact they "believe" it doesn't
change the "lie" into "truth" or "unintentional mistake". If you parrot
falsehoods (lies), what you are saying remains a "lie", whether you
believe it to be true or not. Don't try to confuse "lie" (falsehood)
with "lying" (knowingly trying to deceive people).
> You can't get away from the bottom line. THE BIBLE USES STAURUS TO
> DESCRIBE JESUS' EXECUTION INSTRUMENT. "Come hell or high water", that
> is always the base line.
To begin, no one needs to "get away" from the fact the Bible says
"staurus", to understand Romans hung patibulum ON THE STAURUS.
Second, it is not I who seek to get away from the bottom line, but you:
• You PRETEND it's necessary to "get away" from "staurus" to
understand Romans hung patibulum ON THE STAURUS. This is pure
falsehood (lies). It's like claiming Bible boats couldn't have
oars, because the Bible says "boats" not "oars". You don't have
to tell people who "rowed" these boats that they had "oars",
for them to understand they had oars. When the Bible says
"staurus", that does not equal "and didn't have a patibulum".
• You CITE VERBATIM: "No one disputes that staurus means pole,
fool!", then PRETEND I tried to "get away" from the word
"staurus" after you cite me acknowledging it.
• You PRETEND that if "all" boats don't have oars (something I
never claimed), it somehow refutes the fact "Bible" boats had
oars (what I actually claimed). It does not. The Bible calls
them "boats", but does not deny they had oars. That's how they
"rowed" them. Thus again you promote a lie.
• You are not arguing against the ACTUAL points being raised,
because you know your view loses. Instead, you MISREPRESENT the
views and try to REFRAME them with straw-men of your own
invention.
Remember, a falsehood is a lie, whether people believe it to be true or
not. If you promote falsehoods, you promote lies.
Conclusion
The fact the Bible uses "staurus" provides ZERO EVIDENCE that Romans did
NOT hang patibulum on the staurus. We know from multiple historical
sources that they did. Trying to maintain an ongoing argument about this
is like trying to claim Bible boats did not have oars because the Bible
says "boat", not "oars".
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God
raised Him from the dead?
That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death
penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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