XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.bible   
   From: usenet@christrose.news   
      
   ========================================   
   Fri, 26 Dec 2025 08:48:41 -0500   
      
   Watchtower Heretic James  wrote:   
   ========================================   
   > I'll stay with the common sense thought that a "staurus" is what BIBLE   
   > SCHOLARS say is an upright pole.   
      
      
   Who disputed that "staurus" means upright pole? Not me. I've never   
   disputed that. It means pole. The lie you're trying to pass off here is   
   that it ceases to be a "staurus" if someone attaches a cross-beam to it   
   (patibulum). This would be like claiming a "boat" can't be a "boat", if   
   someone uses an "oar", because it says "boat", not "boat with oars".   
   That's the perfect antithesis to "common sense".   
      
   The Romans DID attach patibulum to the cross-beams. It's a documented,   
   historical fact. You promote stupid lies, whether you believe them to be   
   true or not.   
      
   1. Plautus (c. 254–184 BC) – *Miles Gloriosus* 359–360   
      
         "Patibulum ferat per urbem, deinde affigatur cruci" (Plautus,   
          *Miles Gloriosus* 359–360).   
      
         ("Let him carry the patibulum through the city, then be fastened   
           to the cross").   
      
   This shows that the condemned carried the patibulum to the site of   
   execution, consistent with Gospel accounts (John 19:17).   
      
   2. Seneca the Younger (c. 4 BC–AD 65) – *De Vita Beata* 19.3   
      
         "Aliter patiuntur bestiarum ictus aut patibulo suffiguntur"   
          (Seneca, *De Vita Beata* 19.3)   
      
         ("They suffer blows from beasts or are fastened to the   
           patibulum.")   
      
   Seneca mentions criminals being fastened to the patibulum, indicating it   
   was a physical beam.   
      
   3. Justinian’s Digest (compiled AD 533)   
      
         "Qui patibulo adfixus est" *Digest* 48.19.28 §15.   
      
         ("He who has been affixed to the patibulum.")   
      
   This shows legal terminology acknowledging the patibulum as part of   
   crucifixion.   
      
   These sources confirm that Roman crucifixion involved the patibulum,   
   which the condemned carried and was affixed to, forming the traditional   
   cross structure (T or †). The concept of outstretched arms (e.g., John   
   21:18) assumes this form.   
      
   --   
   Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God   
   raised Him from the dead?   
      
   That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death   
   penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death   
   satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John   
   2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your   
   sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.   
      
   On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on   
   the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name   
   of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).   
      
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