XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.bible
From: usenet@christrose.news
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Wed, 21 Jan 2026 10:06:49 -0500
<40g1nkhod5nrn0h5n4qgvboosj85gkddlv@4ax.com>
Watchtower Heretic James wrote:
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>> The account teaches truths which flatly refute your
>> lies about the eternal state of the lost, showing both the lost and
>> saved are conscious in comfort or torment after their body dies. This is
>> why you try to dismiss and redefine it to mean something contrary to
>> what it says.
> Is "death" conscious?
> Is Hades conscious?
Why do you ask, and of what relevance is that, other than to promote an
ongoing distraction and argument that doesn't actually address what the
Bible teaches?
• Luke 16 clearly shows Lazarus, the rich man, and Abraham are all
conscious in Hades, which proves they did not cease to exist
when their body died, which is consistent with the fact men can
kill the body but not the soul, that God is not the God of the
dead but the living, and many other New Testament revelations
that show people do not cease to consciously exist when they
die.
• Neither I nor the passage ever claimed death and Hades are
conscious, and what happens to the souls of men does not hinge
on death and Hades being conscious. That's a stupid, irrelevant
distraction and diversion. But what else do you have when you're
doctrines are desperate lies?
> Recall that those two things are tossed into the Lake of Fire, along
> with the wicked, and annihilated. (Rev 20:14)
• I remain disabused from the lie that Hades would have to be
conscious before the souls who are "tormented", "day and
night", "forever and ever" are conscious.
• Nothing in the text says or indicates the contradictory LIE
that they are "annihilated". That is a false doctrine which
opposes the fact the souls cast into the lake of fire will
experience "torment", "day and night", "forever and ever".
> -- New King James
> Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die; but the dead
> know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is
> forgotten.
Notice the flawed hermeneutics above. Because he knows the New Testament
refutes his LIES about what this passage means, he IGNORES New Testament
revelation, flees to a verse here and there in the Old Testament, then
offers a free-lance interpretation of it which directly CONTRADICTS what
the New Testament plainly teaches.
Meanwhile
The same book affirms continued existence before God:
“And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to
God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7, ESV).
So even Ecclesiastes itself rejects the idea that death equals
non-existence. The perspective of Ecclesiastes is to show how vain
things appear to men who do not have hope of life after death, as Paul
said,
“If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all
people most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised
from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the
resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in
Christ shall all be made alive.” (1 Corinthians 15:19–22, ESV)
What Jesus teaches in the Gospels
Jesus directly contradicts the idea that the dead “know nothing” in an
absolute sense.
God identifies Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob long
after their deaths. Jesus concludes:
“He is not God of the dead, but of the living” (Matthew 22:32,
ESV).
Jesus also warns of conscious existence after death:
“Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in [Gehenna]”
(Matthew 10:28, ESV).
The soul survives bodily death. Men can kill the body, not the soul.
Jesus further describes conscious experience after death in Luke
16:19–31. The rich man speaks, remembers, reasons, suffers, and pleads.
Lazarus rests in comfort. Regardless of how one labels the account,
Jesus uses it to teach reality, not to deny it. Scripture never uses
illustrations to teach the opposite of what they depict.
Jesus clearly indicates that men do not cease to exist after death, but
experience various degrees of judgment:
“Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of
judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.”
(Matthew 10:15, ESV)
There are no varying degrees of non-existence. If non-existence were the
consequence, it would be exactly the same for everyone. The STATED FACT
that it "will be more bearable on the day of judgment" for one group of
unbelievers than another, destroys the LIE that men cease to exist after
physical death.
Likewise Jesus said it would have been better for Judas if he had not
been born:
“The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man
by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better
for that man if he had not been born.”” (Matthew 26:24, ESV)
Not being born and non-existence are functionally equivalent. That it
would be "better" for someone if he had "not been born", indicates a
judgment which is worse than not existing. That only makes sense if he
experiences a judgment worse than not existing.
Paul consistently teaches conscious existence after death.
“If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all
people most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised
from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the
resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in
Christ shall all be made alive.” (1 Corinthians 15:19–22, ESV)
And no, this isn't merely the 144,000 elect mentioned in Revelation 7.
Even Revelation 7 itself distinguishes between the Jewish believers who
will be saved out of the Tribulation, and the souls from every kindred
tongue and nation which will also be saved out of it:
“After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could
number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages,
standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes,
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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