XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.bible   
   From: usenet@christrose.news   
      
   ========================================   
   Sat, 24 Jan 2026 17:38:36 -0500   
      
   Watchtower Heretic James  wrote:   
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   >> ========================================   
   >> Wed, 21 Jan 2026 10:06:49 -0500   
   >> <40g1nkhod5nrn0h5n4qgvboosj85gkddlv@4ax.com>   
   >> Watchtower Heretic James  wrote:   
   >> ========================================   
   >>>> The account teaches truths which flatly refute your   
   >>>> lies about the eternal state of the lost, showing both the lost and   
   >>>> saved are conscious in comfort or torment after their body dies.   
      
      
   > Since the body contains the consciousness and personality of an   
   > individual, when it dies so does the person. According to Genesis 2:7,   
   > man IS a soul. Since the churches teach that you NEVER die, after   
   > death you continue to live, just have a change of venue, that goes   
   > contrary to God's teachings.   
   >   
   > -- Living Bible   
   > Ecclesiastes 9:10  Whatever you do, do well, for in death, where you   
   > are going, there is no working or planning, or knowing, or   
   > understanding.   
   >   
   > Yes, most all persons go to the grave when they die. And that's the   
   > end of that person till the resurrection:   
      
      
   Genesis 2:7 does not teach annihilation. “Then the LORD God formed the   
   man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of   
   life, and the man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7, ESV).   
      
   The text explains how man came to life. It does not define the soul as   
   merely the body, nor does it say the soul ceases to exist when the body   
   dies. Scripture later distinguishes body and soul clearly.   
      
   God warned Adam, “for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely   
   die” (Genesis 2:17, ESV). When Adam ate, he did not cease to exist. He   
   did not disappear. His body did not die that day. Scripture records that   
   Adam lived hundreds of years afterward (Genesis 5:5).   
      
   What did happen immediately was separation from God. Adam hid from the   
   presence of the LORD (Genesis 3:8). He was expelled from the garden and   
   cut off from direct fellowship with God (Genesis 3:23–24). Death entered   
   his condition that very day, even though physical death came later.   
      
   This confirms an essential understanding of what death means in the   
   Bible. Death does not mean cessation of existence. Death means   
   separation. Spiritual death is separation from God. Physical death is   
   separation of the soul from the body. Eternal death is eternal   
   separation from God in the lake of fire (), where the worm does not die   
   (), the fire is not quenched (), where there will be "weeping and   
   gnashing of teeth", and wher the smoke of their "torment" goes up "day   
   and night", "forever and ever" (), not cessation of existence.   
      
   Scripture consistently maintains this pattern. Adam “died” the day he   
   sinned, yet remained fully conscious, morally accountable, and   
   relationally broken before God. His later physical death completed what   
   began spiritually.   
      
   This directly refutes the claim that “death” means non-existence. If   
   death meant annihilation, God’s warning in Genesis 2:17 would have been   
   false. Adam neither ceased to exist nor lost consciousness. Instead, sin   
   severed fellowship with God, exactly as the rest of Scripture defines death.   
      
   This also aligns with later revelation. “The wages of sin is death”   
   (Romans 6:23, ESV). Yet Scripture never teaches that sinners stop   
   existing. It teaches separation from God and accountability before Him.   
      
   Jesus directly refutes the idea that consciousness ends at physical death.   
   “Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather   
   fear him who can destroy both soul and body in [Gehenna]” (Matthew   
   10:28, ESV).   
   Men can kill the body. They cannot kill the soul. The soul survives the   
   death of the body and remains accountable to God.   
      
   Ecclesiastes 9:10 does not teach non-existence. “Whatever your hand   
   finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or   
   knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going” (Ecclesiastes   
   9:10, ESV).   
      
   The passage speaks of activity “under the sun,” life as it is lived in   
   this world. It does not deny conscious existence after death.   
   Ecclesiastes repeatedly describes death from the vantage point of   
   earthly life, not the full reality revealed later in Christ.   
      
   Sheol corresponds to Hades, the realm of the dead prior to final judgment.   
   Jesus speaks of conscious existence there, including awareness, memory,   
   and torment, while the body lies dead (Luke 16:22–23, ESV). This   
   confirms how Sheol functions in the Old Testament.   
      
   The New Testament explicitly teaches conscious existence after death.   
   Jesus told the thief, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in   
   Paradise” (Luke 23:43, ESV). The promise places conscious fellowship   
   with Christ immediately after death, not unconscious non-existence.   
      
   Paul taught the same truth. “We would rather be away from the body and   
   at home with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV). To be absent from the   
   body does not mean to cease to exist.   
      
   Jesus said it would be more tolerable in the day of judgment for Sodom   
   than for Capernaum (Matthew 11:24, ESV). Degrees of tolerability make no   
   sense if everyone simply ceases to exist. There cannot be varying   
   degrees of non-existence.   
      
   Jesus also said of Judas, “It would have been better for that man if he   
   had not been born” (Matthew 26:24, ESV). Not being born cannot be   
   “better” than non-existence after death if annihilation were true.   
   Jesus’ statement only makes sense if Judas faces conscious judgment.   
      
   Revelation confirms the same reality. “And the smoke of their torment   
   goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night”   
   (Revelation 14:11, ESV). Torment, no rest, day and night, forever and   
   ever. This describes ongoing conscious judgment, not extinction.   
      
   Symbolism in Scripture never teaches the opposite of what it depicts.   
   Symbols and parables convey real truths consistent with their imagery.   
   Fire that burns without rest communicates ongoing judgment, not   
   disappearance.   
      
   Scripture speaks with one voice when all passages are allowed to speak.   
   Physical death ends life under the sun. It does not end personal   
   existence. The soul survives the death of the body. The saved enjoy   
   conscious comfort with the Lord. The lost remain conscious under   
   judgment. Christ Himself teaches this plainly, and the apostles confirm it.   
      
   --   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)