XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.bible   
   From: usenet@christrose.news   
      
   ========================================   
   Wed, 28 Jan 2026 13:07:59 -0500   
   <765knkhaeodljh4hf63qjgfu5onflri95r@4ax.com>   
   Watchtower Heretic James  wrote:   
   ========================================   
   >>      “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven   
   >>        and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.”   
   >>        (Revelation 21:1, ESV)   
      
   > Well there goes the oceans, rivers, streams, and lakes. BUT IT DOESN'T   
   > MEAN THEM. It means the sea of mankind.   
      
   That claim collapses immediately under the text itself.   
      
   John does not say “the sea of mankind.” He says *“the sea”*, and he   
   says   
   it in the same sentence where he speaks of *heaven* and *earth* passing   
   away.   
      
   “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the   
   first earth had passed away, *and the sea was no more*” (Revelation   
   21:1, ESV).   
      
   You are doing the same thing again: redefining one noun in the sentence   
   while insisting the others remain literal. That is not interpretation.   
   That is selective redefinition.   
      
   If “heaven” and “earth” are literal in the sentence, “sea” is   
   literal.   
   If “sea” suddenly becomes symbolic, you must prove it from the text.   
   John gives no such signal.   
      
   Now notice what John does next.   
      
   “And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from   
   God” (Revelation 21:2, ESV).   
      
   People are introduced *after* the description of the new creation. Just   
   like Revelation 20, location first, inhabitants second. The pattern   
   remains consistent.   
      
   Your claim also contradicts how Revelation itself uses “sea.”   
      
   Earlier, John explicitly identifies a symbolic “sea” when it is symbolic:   
      
   “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples   
   and multitudes and nations and languages” (Revelation 17:15, ESV).   
      
   That is how symbolism works in Revelation: it is explained. Revelation   
   never leaves you guessing. When the “sea” represents peoples, the text   
   tells you so.   
      
   Revelation 21:1 gives no explanation. Therefore it is not a symbol.   
      
   Worse, your interpretation creates absurdities elsewhere.   
      
   If “the sea” always means mankind, then this becomes nonsense:   
      
   “And the sea gave up the dead who were in it” (Revelation 20:13, ESV).   
      
   Mankind giving up mankind is incoherent. The verse already lists:   
   – the sea   
   – Death   
   – Hades   
      
   All three give up the dead. They are locations or states, not populations.   
      
   There is also a theological reason John mentions the sea.   
      
   In Scripture, the sea often represents chaos, separation, and threat in   
   the created order (Genesis 1:2; Psalm 74:13–14; Isaiah 27:1). Saying   
   “the sea was no more” does not require allegory. It declares the removal   
   of everything unstable, hostile, and threatening in the old creation.   
   That still refers to creation, not people.   
      
   And finally, your move contradicts Isaiah, Peter, Hebrews, and   
   Revelation taken together:   
      
   – Heavens pass away   
   – Earth is changed   
   – Creation flees from God’s presence   
   – A new creation replaces the old   
   – Righteous people dwell *in* it   
      
   At no point does Scripture redefine “heaven,” “earth,” or “sea”   
   into   
   “people” in these passages. When people are meant, the text says people.   
      
   So no — this does not mean “the sea of mankind.”   
      
   It means exactly what it says:   
   – the first heaven passed away   
   – the first earth passed away   
   – the sea was no more   
      
   And then, *people appear*, dwelling in the new creation God makes.   
      
   You are not reading Revelation on its own terms. You are forcing it to   
   say something it never says in order to preserve a system Scripture   
   itself dismantles.   
      
   --   
   Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God   
   raised Him from the dead?   
      
   That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death   
   penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death   
   satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John   
   2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your   
   sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.   
      
   On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on   
   the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name   
   of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).   
      
   https://christrose.news/salvation   
      
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