XPost: alt.christnet.christnews, alt.bible
From: usenet@christrose.news
========================================
Fri, 30 Jan 2026 17:00:29 -0500
Watchtower Heretic James wrote:
========================================
>> You've already seen and admitted olam does not
>> necessitate a never ending period of time. Further, your proposed
>> interpretation about how it relates to planet earth flatly contradict
>> what the context of the New Testament teaches.
> Opinion #478. Looks like you are breaking a record.
Lie #4,780
Notice, he tries to label as a mere "opinion" what he's seen both the
Old and New Testaments declare: 1) the present heavens and earth will be
dissolved by fire, flee, and be replaced by a new heavens and earth.
He's also seen and admitted from the Bible, that 2) "olam" does not
necessitate a never-ending period of time. Now he tries to label it mere
"opinion".
1) Both the Old and New Testaments declare that the present heavens and
earth will be destroyed, changed, dissolved by fire, flee, etc.:
Psalm 102:25–26
“Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the
work of your hands. They will perish, but you will remain; they will all
wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will
pass away” (Psalm 102:25–26, ESV).
Isaiah 34:4
“All the host of heaven shall rot away, and the skies roll up like a
scroll. All their host shall fall, as leaves fall from the vine, like
leaves falling from the fig tree” (Isaiah 34:4, ESV).
Isaiah 51:6
“Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look at the earth beneath; for
the heavens vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment,
and they who dwell in it will die in like manner” (Isaiah 51:6, ESV).
New Testament passages
Matthew 24:35
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away”
(Matthew 24:35, ESV).
Mark 13:31
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away” (Mark
13:31, ESV).
Luke 21:33
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away” (Luke
21:33, ESV).
Hebrews 1:10–12
“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the
heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them
up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your
years will have no end” (Hebrews 1:10–12, ESV).
2 Peter 3:7
“But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up
for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the
ungodly” (2 Peter 3:7, ESV).
2 Peter 3:10
“But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens
will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up
and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be
exposed” (2 Peter 3:10, ESV).
2 Peter 3:12
“Waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of
which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly
bodies will melt as they burn” (2 Peter 3:12, ESV).
Revelation 20:11
“Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his
presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them”
(Revelation 20:11, ESV).
Revelation 21:1
“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the
first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more” (Revelation 21:1,
ESV).
2) Add to that the fact that "olam" does NOT necessitate a never ending
period of time, and it confirms.
Next, olam does NOT necessitate a never-ending period of time in
relation to finite creation:
“I went down to the land whose bars closed upon me forever
[olam], yet you brought up my life from the pit” (Jonah 2:6,
ESV).
Jonah was in the fish three days and three nights (Jonah 1:17).
“Forever” describes his experience, not endless time.
“Then his master shall bring him to God… and he shall be his
slave forever [olam]” (Exodus 21:6, ESV).
This lasted for the servant’s lifetime, not eternally.
“I will bring him, that he may appear in the presence of the LORD
and dwell there forever [olam]” (1 Samuel 1:22, ESV).
“As long as he lives, he is lent to the LORD” (1 Samuel 1:28,
ESV).
The text itself explains olam as “as long as he lives.”
“And he shall be your slave forever [olam]” (Deuteronomy 15:17,
ESV).
Again, lifelong service, not endless existence.
“So these stones shall be to the people of Israel a memorial
forever [olam]” (Joshua 4:7, ESV).
The stones existed as long as the memorial stood, not eternally.
“Lift up your heads, O gates… O ancient doors [olam]” (Psalm
24:7, ESV).
The doors are old, not eternal.
“He looked and shook the nations; then the eternal [olam]
mountains were scattered” (Habakkuk 3:6, ESV).
Mountains called “eternal” are still shaken and altered by God.
“The hill and the watchtower will become dens forever [olam]…
until the Spirit is poured upon us” (Isaiah 32:14–15, ESV).
Olam explicitly ends when God acts.
“Making their land a horror, a thing to be hissed at forever
[olam]” (Jeremiah 18:16, ESV).
Israel’s desolation did not last eternally.
Key biblical truth:
Olam does not mean “endless by definition.” It means duration viewed
from the standpoint of the subject—often long, undefined, or complete
within God’s purpose. Context determines its length. Scripture itself
repeatedly places boundaries on it.
Therefore:
When passages say the earth “remains forever” or the righteous dwell in
the land “forever,” the word itself does not demand eternal preservation
of the present creation. It allows for continuity through judgment,
transformation, and fulfillment, exactly as later revelation teaches
(Psalm 102:25–26, ESV; 2 Peter 3:7–13, ESV).
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (†), and God
raised Him from the dead?
That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death
penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
|
