XPost: alt.bible
From: usenet@christrose.news
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Sat, 07 Feb 2026 13:16:40 -0500
Watchtower Heretic James wrote:
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> The churches teach of a literal Lake of Fire.
You offer no convincing evidence the Bible itself teaches otherwise:
• "where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched"
(Isaiah 66:24, ESV)
• "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake
of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were,
and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
(Revelation 20:10, ESV)
• "Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This
is the second death, the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:14, ESV)
• But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for
murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all
liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire
and sulfur, which is the second death.(Revelation 21:8, ESV)
• "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better
for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to
hell, to the unquenchable fire." (Mark 9:43, ESV)
• "And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better
for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into
hell." (Mark 9:45, ESV) [Context from v. 43 clarifies this is
the same "unquenchable fire."]
• "And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better
for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two
eyes to be thrown into hell, ‘where their worm does not die and
the fire is not quenched.’" (Mark 9:47-48, ESV)
• "His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his
threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the
chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." (Matthew 3:12, ESV)
•[Spoken by John the Baptist about Jesus.]•
• "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the
righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46, ESV) •[Preceded
by reference to "the eternal fire prepared for the devil and
his angels" (v.41).]
• "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his
angels.’" (Matthew 25:41, ESV)
• "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the
soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in
hell." (Matthew 10:28, ESV) [The Greek word here is •Gehenna•,
associated with final judgment.]
• "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which
likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural
desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of
eternal fire." (Jude 1:7, ESV)
> The Bible says it is not literal.
Not a single passage you cite below "says" it's not literal. Yet that is
your claim. You're not merely saying the Bible "indicates" or "implies",
but that it actually "says" it is not literal. It does not. You are
already trying to build on a falsehood (LIE).
> It even tells us what it represents= The second death.
> (Rev 20:14) Compare these two:>
> -- King James
> Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
> This is the second death.
Exactly. It defines "death" for you right there. Death "IS" the state of
being separated from God in the lake of fire. Death is NOT extinction.
Death is NOT annihilation. Death is NOT a personal being or entity. It
IS the state of being separated from God:
Adam died the day he sinned, yet he continued to exist, alienated from
God's fellowship and expelled from the garden, under judgment (Genesis
2:17; Genesis 3:22–24).
Paul describes unbelievers as “dead in trespasses and sins” while they
remain fully conscious and active (Ephesians 2:1, ESV).
Death means separation from God, not extinction, not lack of conscious
torment. That is what occurs when these souls are sent to the lake of
fire. It is death because their soul is being separated from God, just
like it was separated from their body (first death). When they are being
separated from God in the lake of fire, that "IS" the second death.
> -- New King James
> Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of
> fire. This is the second death.
idem.
> DEATH is cast into it. Can DEATH be picked up and tossed somewhere?
idem.
> Can DEATH be effected by literal fire? Of course not.
idem.
To begin, as already noted, death is the state of being separated. The
first death is separation from your physical body. The second death is
separation of your soul from God in the lake of fire. Death is not a
personal entity. It IS the state of being separated from God. The verse
you cite states that being cast into the lake of fire "IS" the second death.
Next, "literal" is not confined to meaning "physical" or "bound by earth
physics", as you imply. God is a "literal" being, yet he is a spirit
(John 4:24).
“God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit
and truth.”” (John 4:24, ESV)
God, demons, and human souls neither become nor cease to be literal
beings, based on whether or not you can strike a match and burn them
with physical, earth-physics fire. To contend that something is not
literal unless it is subject to earth physics is a Bible-refuted lie.
Can you burn your thoughts with a camp fire? No. Does that mean you
don't have literal thoughts?
Thirdly, the lake of fire was prepared for literal spirit beings, not
literal earth-physics beings.
““Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his
angels.” (Matthew 25:41, ESV)
Since the fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, it was
obviously not designed to torment physical flesh. It will be a literal
fire that is as suitable for tormenting souls as earth fire is for human
bodies.
> DEATH is not a 3
> dimentional thing. It does not take up space or have weight. Thus it
> can't be effected by hot flames.
No one said it does or is. You are the one who imported that confusion,
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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