XPost: soc.culture.usa, alt.politics.usa, talk.politics.theory   
   XPost: soc.rights.human, alt.politics.usa.misc   
   From: NoOne@private.corp   
      
   On 8/29/2024 2:07 PM, Intelligent Party wrote:   
   > On 5/18/2024 2:28 PM, Kirk Spragg wrote:   
   >> Hey Victoria though we'd best move that conversation about communism   
   >> from FSX to here.   
   >>   
   >> ma> I am a Marxist-Leninist... aka communist/bolshevik/(derogaatory by   
   >> ultra   
   >> ma>leftists and liberals) tankie   
   >> ma> I am a super strong avocate for 20th century Socialism   
   >> ma> which is worker's state, centrally planned economy, means of   
   >> production ma>seized   
   >> ma>by workers, and no markets   
   >>   
   >> Though I'm definitely on the left, I'd have to say that history & the   
   >> soviet union's failure to keep up with the west illustrate that a   
   >> centrally planned economy just doesn't work well.   
   >>   
   >> ma> under capitalism there is severe exploitation   
   >> ma> under socialism exploitation is non existant   
   >> ma> exploitation is where someone who dose not contribute to society   
   >> live off ma> the   
   >> ma> labor of others. aka the capitalist. they live off the labor because   
   >> they ma> own   
   >> ma> the factories etc. aka the means of production   
   >>   
   >> Again history shows that just isn't the case, at uni I met a number of   
   >> Russian and east european academics all of whom had horror stories of how   
   >> just how exploitative Russia's socalist state was to its people.   
   >>   
   >> Similarly I know several Chinese Ex-Pats who say similar things about   
   >> the CCP & how things are run in China.   
   >>   
   >> How do you envisage a new communist partly/state avoiding this?   
   >>   
   >> ... White dwarf seeks red giant for binary relationship.   
   >   
   >   
   > 1) All big businesses started small.  Microsoft started in someone's   
   > basement.   
   > 2) 50% of the American economy is small businesses.   
   > 3) If the state is ever going to wither away, and it's going to be a   
   > Utopia as Karl Marx said, then why don't the Communists just say no one   
   > owns anything today unless they're carrying it?   
   > 4) Why not just raise the minimum wage to 50% per capita GDP after taxes?   
   > 5) And have free education, and 1/2 minimum wage to non-earners.  i.e.   
   > more Socialism, not Communism.   
   > 6) Why does the government have to own all the means of production?  Why   
   > not just some of the means of food production.  Or, what if businesses   
   > merely couldn't ever pay dividends, what would the difference even be?   
   > At the moment I'm not sure how you can restrict spending on high   
   > salaries though, ultimately, everyone should get equal pay (or   
   > consumption) for an hour worked at anything is obvious.  We're all equal   
   > in cost and expense and Spirit.  We differ temporarily in assets until   
   > everyone has everything. Pay (in Capitalism) is a return on capital, for   
   > instance your skills and education, more than your labor.   
   > 7) Saving is what Capitalism does better than Communism.  Capitalists   
   > don't consume everything they produce.  China has been saving, and so   
   > Communism has apparently worked out a bit there.   
   >   
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   I think Communism is a bit like pedophilia. You can always find   
   adherents, but they are certainly not mainstream.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)