XPost: alt.activism, alt.california, alt.politics.bush   
   XPost: alt.politics.republicans, ba.politics, ca.politics   
   From: thomandpam@yahoo.com.au   
      
   On 12 Apr 2004 13:09:10 -0700, gimme_this_gimme_that@yahoo.com (GIMME)   
   wrote:   
      
   >Comments follow ...   
   >   
   >> ...Socialism always moves toward more democracy and capitalism always moves   
   >> toward less. In fact the kind of global corporate capitalism that is so   
   >> strenuously promoted today may be, as anyone from Thomas Jefferson to Ralph   
   >> Nader to George Soros might assert, incompatible with democracy.   
   >   
   >Socialism resolves toward oppression as described in my writings   
   >by George Orwell.   
      
   Socialism is the opposite of oppression and empowers the individual   
   against corporations.   
   >   
   >Jefferson - dead.   
   >Nader - a loser.   
   Better than being George Bush   
   >Soros - a psycho.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> The United States, for example, between its military-industrial complex,   
   >> giant corporations and successive governments, has done everything it can to   
   >> block and suppress democracy within its own borders and all around the world   
   >> through military force, mass murder, assassinations, election tampering and   
   >> all manner of intimidation.   
   >   
   >Wrong, it is more accurate to say the US government is for sale to the   
   >highest bidder. The intents of the government depend upon what   
   >campaign contributors decide they want.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> This is a matter of public record now, as is the widespread corruption to be   
   >> found in so many of the large corporations cheating people out of their life   
   >> savings. Make no mistake about it, democracy, to whatever extent it ever   
   >> existed, is disappearing. This is certainly not happening at the hands of   
   >> the leftists or socialists.   
      
   But that's what capitalism is... making your money their money and   
   doing as little as possible to do it.   
   >   
   >Those who cheated, in many instances, saved their money irresponsibly.   
   >Can't blame the government for that.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> No Canadian can possibly deny that socialist parties and left-wing   
   >> initiatives created a more democratic, fair and admirable country, all of   
   >> which is quickly disappearing, notably since the advent of NAFTA and the FTA   
   >> with the U.S.   
   >   
   >NAFTA was bad for the US. A perfect example of a policy promoted by   
   >special interests.   
      
   Including Rush Limbaugh   
   >   
   >Whether Canada will remain an admirable country remains to be seen.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> Northern European countries with the most socialism boast the highest   
   >> standards of living, the least poverty and most equitable health care and   
   >> social safety nets. The benefits in low crime, good health and so much less   
   >> social desperation are enormous. All this is disappearing in Canada now, as   
   >> our corporate elite push our political elite to adopt an American style   
   >> neo-conservative right-wing agenda.   
   >   
   >Wrong, Northern E. countries are struggling financially. They haven't   
   >had strong economic growth in decades.   
      
   that's not what he said.  They still have the highest standard of   
   living in the world for their people, who cares what the corporations   
   are going thru.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> Although in the U.S. we know that every initiative for the well-being,   
   >> liberty and security of people, such as the labor struggles and the civil   
   >> right movement, also came from the left wing, we see, by contrast, that the   
   >> wealthy industrialized countries have the greatest levels of poverty, crime,   
   >> violence, infant mortality, incarceration rates and murder. The bottom of   
   >> the list in every human need category is where the richest country in the   
   >> world dwells.   
   >>   
   >   
   >It's not capitalism vs. socialism per se. A country is a reflection of   
   >it's people who are either productive or unproductive. A large country   
   >has many of both types.   
      
   but few in control   
   >   
   >> Meanwhile, the rich among these bottom dwellers use more public money and   
   >> pay less tax than ever before, rake in obscene profits and pay themselves   
   >> multi-million dollar salaries, as they put their own country's people out of   
   >> work and create wage slaves all around the world....   
      
   TV last night showed that while the average Joe pays 18% in taxes the   
   richest pay 19%.   
   >>   
   >Taxes were higher in the 60s.   
   >"obscene" profits is laughable. They wish.   
   >A million doesn't go very far in California.   
      
   thats capitalism for you.   
   >   
   >Every country has wage slaves.   
      
   no they don't.  Australia doesn't though its starting to happen as   
   their government is gradually taken over by the new world order.   
      
   >It's not slavory if you enjoy your work. Actually, for most it is   
   >a source of self esteem.   
      
   Work will set you free?   
      
   THOM   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)