XPost: alt.activism, alt.california, alt.politics.bush   
   XPost: alt.politics.republicans, ba.politics, ca.politics   
   From: thomandpam@yahoo.com.au   
      
   On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 18:26:57 GMT, "kujebak"    
   wrote:   
      
   >   
   >"Thom"  wrote in message   
   >news:40f13075.13514088@news.melbpc.org.au...   
   >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 02:14:54 GMT, Orval Fairbairn   
   >>  wrote:   
   >>   
   >> >In article <40ee7b51.21427552@news.melbpc.org.au>,   
   >> > thomandpam@yahoo.com.au (Thom) wrote:   
   >> >   
   >> >> On 12 Apr 2004 13:09:10 -0700, gimme_this_gimme_that@yahoo.com (GIMME)   
   >> >> wrote:   
   >> >>   
   >> >> >Comments follow ...   
   >> >> >   
   >> >> >> ...Socialism always moves toward more democracy and capitalism   
   >always   
   >> >> >> moves   
   >> >> >> toward less. In fact the kind of global corporate capitalism that is   
   >so   
   >> >> >> strenuously promoted today may be, as anyone from Thomas Jefferson   
   >to   
   >> >> >> Ralph   
   >> >> >> Nader to George Soros might assert, incompatible with democracy.   
   >   
   >Socialism doesn't always move toward more democracy. It always moves toward   
   >the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat", with all its hideous implications -   
   >forced conformity   
   >to the lowest common intellectual and socio-economic denominator.   
      
   You need to be clearer on that.  First of all socialism has to have a   
   democratic environment to survive.  Socialism uses the best parts of   
   the left and right.  It provides basic services so companies don't   
   have to have them as part of their price structures, an example is   
   company provided health care.  If this overhead is removed, the worker   
   gets more pay, the product sells for less and the company makes more   
   money.   
      
   Since Government is people doing as a whole what they can not do as   
   individuals then it makes sense.  It is the responsibility of   
   government to create those conditions where ALL (not just fat cat   
   CEO's) can prosper.  This is the way it must be till money is no   
   longer used and wealth is no longer a social priority.   
   >   
   >> >> >   
   >> >> >Socialism resolves toward oppression as described in my writings   
   >> >> >by George Orwell.   
   >> >>   
   >> >> Socialism is the opposite of oppression and empowers the individual   
   >> >> against corporations.   
   >> >   
   >> >   
   >> >Ah, but it empowers government, which has the police power, to oppress   
   >> >the individual.   
   >>   
   >> Like it is now?  Gun control, attacking religions in Waco they don't   
   >> like, attacking survivalists like Randy Weaver etc etc etc.  Anything   
   >> is an improvcement over the Bush Ragime.   
   >   
   >It seems you are not old enough to remember who ordered the genocidal   
   >attack on Waco.   
      
   During the Bush 41 administration a series of 9 attacks were planned   
   and approved by the White House and JD.  Each had a socicio-political   
   agenda.  The first was to snuff out the survivalist movement and Randy   
   Weaver was chosen as the target.  Next was a group of religious   
   communalists in Texas whose land was also wanted by a developer friend   
   of Bush.  Next was a family in Colorado Springs who were part of the   
   "self-government Movement".  Ruby and Waco hit but when Colorado   
   Springs hit the neighbors revolted and basically went up against the   
   BAFT thugging their neighborhood.  The media decended and the BATF   
   backed off and another WACO was averted.   
      
   >You are obviously not old enough to understand the true   
   >nature of  socialism revealed by the real-life experiments in Eastern   
   >Europe.   
      
   I live in a socialist country and the city I live in is year after   
   year found to be the "Most Livable City" in the world.   
      
   >Take it from one who took part in one of those experiments - there ain't no   
   >such thing as "Socialism with a Human Face". The ultimate goal of socialism   
   >NOT economic equity. Have you ever wondered why some of socialism's   
   >most influential proponents in this country (like Soros) are also some of   
   >the   
   >wealthiest? The commissar rulers of the Soviet Union and the sycophant   
   >Eastern European dictatorships all had multimillion  bank accounts in   
   >Switzerland. Socialism is all about imposing absolute conformity and   
   >destroying all manifestations of individuality (turning human society into   
   >an anthill), which, of course, was the main reason for its ultimate failure.   
      
   Oh Bull!  socialism is no such thing.  That's communism and   
   capitalism, they just use different methods.   
      
   THOM   
   >   
   >   
   >   
      
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