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   XPost: alt.activism, alt.california, alt.politics.bush   
   XPost: alt.politics.republicans, ba.politics, ca.politics   
   From: orfairbairn_spam_sucks@earthjunk.net   
      
   In article <40ee7b51.21427552@news.melbpc.org.au>,   
    thomandpam@yahoo.com.au (Thom) wrote:   
      
   > On 12 Apr 2004 13:09:10 -0700, gimme_this_gimme_that@yahoo.com (GIMME)   
   > wrote:   
   >   
   > >Comments follow ...   
   > >   
   > >> ...Socialism always moves toward more democracy and capitalism always   
   > >> moves   
   > >> toward less. In fact the kind of global corporate capitalism that is so   
   > >> strenuously promoted today may be, as anyone from Thomas Jefferson to   
   > >> Ralph   
   > >> Nader to George Soros might assert, incompatible with democracy.   
   > >   
   > >Socialism resolves toward oppression as described in my writings   
   > >by George Orwell.   
   >   
   > Socialism is the opposite of oppression and empowers the individual   
   > against corporations.   
      
      
   Ah, but it empowers government, which has the police power, to oppress   
   the individual.   
      
      
      
   > >Jefferson - dead.   
   > >Nader - a loser.   
   > Better than being George Bush   
   > >Soros - a psycho.   
   > >   
   > >>   
   > >> The United States, for example, between its military-industrial complex,   
   > >> giant corporations and successive governments, has done everything it can   
   > >> to   
   > >> block and suppress democracy within its own borders and all around the   
   > >> world   
   > >> through military force, mass murder, assassinations, election tampering   
   > >> and   
   > >> all manner of intimidation.   
   > >   
   > >Wrong, it is more accurate to say the US government is for sale to the   
   > >highest bidder. The intents of the government depend upon what   
   > >campaign contributors decide they want.   
   > >   
   > >>   
   > >> This is a matter of public record now, as is the widespread corruption to   
   > >> be   
   > >> found in so many of the large corporations cheating people out of their   
   > >> life   
   > >> savings. Make no mistake about it, democracy, to whatever extent it ever   
   > >> existed, is disappearing. This is certainly not happening at the hands of   
   > >> the leftists or socialists.   
   >   
   > But that's what capitalism is... making your money their money and   
   > doing as little as possible to do it.   
      
      
   So, what?   
      
      
   > >Those who cheated, in many instances, saved their money irresponsibly.   
   > >Can't blame the government for that.   
   > >   
   > >>   
   > >> No Canadian can possibly deny that socialist parties and left-wing   
   > >> initiatives created a more democratic, fair and admirable country, all of   
   > >> which is quickly disappearing, notably since the advent of NAFTA and the   
   > >> FTA   
   > >> with the U.S.   
   > >   
   > >NAFTA was bad for the US. A perfect example of a policy promoted by   
   > >special interests.   
   >   
   > Including Rush Limbaugh   
   > >   
   > >Whether Canada will remain an admirable country remains to be seen.   
   > >   
   > >>   
   > >> Northern European countries with the most socialism boast the highest   
   > >> standards of living, the least poverty and most equitable health care and   
   > >> social safety nets. The benefits in low crime, good health and so much   
   > >> less   
   > >> social desperation are enormous. All this is disappearing in Canada now,   
   > >> as   
   > >> our corporate elite push our political elite to adopt an American style   
   > >> neo-conservative right-wing agenda.   
   > >   
   > >Wrong, Northern E. countries are struggling financially. They haven't   
   > >had strong economic growth in decades.   
   >   
   > that's not what he said.  They still have the highest standard of   
   > living in the world for their people, who cares what the corporations   
   > are going thru.   
      
      
   Business is the lifeblood of a strong economy -- it is one of the   
   dutioes of government to assure a good business environment.This does   
   not mean that businesses should be allowed to use fraudulent means to   
   assure their profitabality.   
      
      
      
      
      
   > >> Although in the U.S. we know that every initiative for the well-being,   
   > >> liberty and security of people, such as the labor struggles and the civil   
   > >> right movement, also came from the left wing, we see, by contrast, that   
   > >> the   
   > >> wealthy industrialized countries have the greatest levels of poverty,   
   > >> crime,   
   > >> violence, infant mortality, incarceration rates and murder. The bottom of   
   > >> the list in every human need category is where the richest country in the   
   > >> world dwells.   
   > >>   
   > >   
   > >It's not capitalism vs. socialism per se. A country is a reflection of   
   > >it's people who are either productive or unproductive. A large country   
   > >has many of both types.   
   >   
   > but few in control   
      
      
   The same with Socialism, except that it is the government bureaucracy   
   that is in control -- and -- they have the full power of the law behind   
   them.   
      
      
      
   > >> Meanwhile, the rich among these bottom dwellers use more public money and   
   > >> pay less tax than ever before, rake in obscene profits and pay themselves   
   > >> multi-million dollar salaries, as they put their own country's people out   
   > >> of   
   > >> work and create wage slaves all around the world....   
   >   
   > TV last night showed that while the average Joe pays 18% in taxes the   
   > richest pay 19%.   
      
      
   So, what?   
      
      
      
   > >Taxes were higher in the 60s.   
   > >"obscene" profits is laughable. They wish.   
   > >A million doesn't go very far in California.   
   >   
   > thats capitalism for you.   
   > >   
   > >Every country has wage slaves.   
   >   
   > no they don't.  Australia doesn't though its starting to happen as   
   > their government is gradually taken over by the new world order.   
   >   
   > >It's not slavory if you enjoy your work. Actually, for most it is   
   > >a source of self esteem.   
   >   
   > Work will set you free?   
   >   
   > THOM   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)