XPost: alt.activism, alt.california, alt.politics.bush   
   XPost: alt.politics.republicans, ba.politics, ca.politics   
   From: thomandpam@yahoo.com.au   
      
   On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 05:30:09 GMT, "Stan de SD"   
    wrote:   
      
   >   
   >"Thom"  wrote in message   
   >news:40f20783.19377068@news.melbpc.org.au...   
   >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 18:26:57 GMT, "kujebak"    
   >> wrote:   
   >>   
   >> >   
   >> >"Thom"  wrote in message   
   >> >news:40f13075.13514088@news.melbpc.org.au...   
   >> >> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 02:14:54 GMT, Orval Fairbairn   
   >> >>  wrote:   
   >> >>   
   >> >> >In article <40ee7b51.21427552@news.melbpc.org.au>,   
   >> >> > thomandpam@yahoo.com.au (Thom) wrote:   
   >> >> >   
   >> >> >> On 12 Apr 2004 13:09:10 -0700, gimme_this_gimme_that@yahoo.com   
   >(GIMME)   
   >> >> >> wrote:   
   >> >> >>   
   >> >> >> >Comments follow ...   
   >> >> >> >   
   >> >> >> >> ...Socialism always moves toward more democracy and capitalism   
   >> >always   
   >> >> >> >> moves   
   >> >> >> >> toward less. In fact the kind of global corporate capitalism that   
   >is   
   >> >so   
   >> >> >> >> strenuously promoted today may be, as anyone from Thomas   
   >Jefferson   
   >> >to   
   >> >> >> >> Ralph   
   >> >> >> >> Nader to George Soros might assert, incompatible with democracy.   
   >> >   
   >> >Socialism doesn't always move toward more democracy. It always moves   
   >toward   
   >> >the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat", with all its hideous   
   >implications -   
   >> >forced conformity   
   >> >to the lowest common intellectual and socio-economic denominator.   
   >>   
   >> You need to be clearer on that.  First of all socialism has to have a   
   >> democratic environment to survive.  Socialism uses the best parts of   
   >> the left and right.  It provides basic services so companies don't   
   >> have to have them as part of their price structures, an example is   
   >> company provided health care.  If this overhead is removed, the worker   
   >> gets more pay, the product sells for less and the company makes more   
   >> money.   
   >>   
   >> Since Government is people doing as a whole what they can not do as   
   >> individuals then it makes sense.  It is the responsibility of   
   >> government to create those conditions where ALL (not just fat cat   
   >> CEO's) can prosper.  This is the way it must be till money is no   
   >> longer used and wealth is no longer a social priority.   
   >> >   
   >> >> >> >   
   >> >> >> >Socialism resolves toward oppression as described in my writings   
   >> >> >> >by George Orwell.   
   >> >> >>   
   >> >> >> Socialism is the opposite of oppression and empowers the individual   
   >> >> >> against corporations.   
   >> >> >   
   >> >> >   
   >> >> >Ah, but it empowers government, which has the police power, to oppress   
   >> >> >the individual.   
   >> >>   
   >> >> Like it is now?  Gun control, attacking religions in Waco they don't   
   >> >> like, attacking survivalists like Randy Weaver etc etc etc.  Anything   
   >> >> is an improvcement over the Bush Ragime.   
   >> >   
   >> >It seems you are not old enough to remember who ordered the genocidal   
   >> >attack on Waco.   
   >>   
   >> During the Bush 41 administration a series of 9 attacks were planned   
   >> and approved by the White House and JD.  Each had a socicio-political   
   >> agenda.  The first was to snuff out the survivalist movement and Randy   
   >> Weaver was chosen as the target.  Next was a group of religious   
   >> communalists in Texas whose land was also wanted by a developer friend   
   >> of Bush.  Next was a family in Colorado Springs who were part of the   
   >> "self-government Movement".  Ruby and Waco hit but when Colorado   
   >> Springs hit the neighbors revolted and basically went up against the   
   >> BAFT thugging their neighborhood.  The media decended and the BATF   
   >> backed off and another WACO was averted.   
   >>   
   >> >You are obviously not old enough to understand the true   
   >> >nature of  socialism revealed by the real-life experiments in Eastern   
   >> >Europe.   
   >>   
   >> I live in a socialist country and the city I live in is year after   
   >> year found to be the "Most Livable City" in the world.   
   >>   
   >> >Take it from one who took part in one of those experiments - there ain't   
   >no   
   >> >such thing as "Socialism with a Human Face". The ultimate goal of   
   >socialism   
   >> >NOT economic equity. Have you ever wondered why some of socialism's   
   >> >most influential proponents in this country (like Soros) are also some of   
   >> >the   
   >> >wealthiest? The commissar rulers of the Soviet Union and the sycophant   
   >> >Eastern European dictatorships all had multimillion  bank accounts in   
   >> >Switzerland. Socialism is all about imposing absolute conformity and   
   >> >destroying all manifestations of individuality (turning human society   
   >into   
   >> >an anthill), which, of course, was the main reason for its ultimate   
   >failure.   
   >>   
   >> Oh Bull!  socialism is no such thing.  That's communism and   
   >> capitalism, they just use different methods.   
   >   
   >You truly have no clue...   
      
   I live in a socialist country right now, that gives me the TOTAL Clue   
   about what socialism is all about.  I have never had such a high   
   standard of living.   
      
   THOM   
   who unlike the coward in the white house is a Viet Nam vet   
   >   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)