XPost: alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, talk.religion.misc   
   From: Mark.Sornson@hp.com   
      
   Nori Otaku wrote:   
   >   
   > Frank wrote on Tue, 09 Sep 2003 15:08:22 -0600:   
   >   
   > ::snip::   
   >   
   > > What about something like the school PTA... Would that be discouraged? I   
   > > was told that it was.. I could never figure out what could be so harmful   
   > > about getting involved with the schools..   
   >   
   > I believe it is because the JW believe that their time should be put   
   > toward God first, and everything else is irrelevant.  However, if they   
   > *truly* believed that, then why are they not a hermetic order?   
      
   No, everything else isn't necessarily irrelevant,   
   just not first.  Speaking for only myself and my   
   family, we make the personal choice to be involved   
   with JWs to the extent that we are, and thus don't   
   have time for things like PTAs.  However, that doesn't   
   mean that we have no interest in the schools.   
      
   When our boys were young (and in elementary school),   
   my wife volunteered in the school library and did some   
   classroom volunteer work.  We felt that at the time   
   that was a good way to provide support for our children,   
   which had the side benefit of helping others as well.   
      
      
   >   
   > >   
   > >> The focus of the JW GB is to help people follow Jesus' admonition to   
   > >> 'seek first the kingdom' (Matt 6:33). To JWs, those are spiritual   
   > >> pursuits.  Putting 'the kingdom first' isn't an argument against the   
   > >> absolute value of other pursuits (such as any material charity work),   
   > >> but it ('the kingdom') is the only pursuit that the JW GB has authority   
   > >> to promote.   
   > >   
   > > No one would disagree with that.. But many charity groups dont have any   
   > > religious affiliation, but do good works.. why wouldnt that be   
   > > encouraged??   
   >   
   > Again, because it takes time away from serving the JW church.   
      
   The thing is, each JW has to make the consciencious   
   choice to volunteer that time.  Each one makes the personal   
   decision to make spiritual pursuits their priority.   
      
   When Jesus said for each one to 'pick up their cross and   
   follow him,' he was encouraging them to willingly choose   
   a course of self-sacrifice that would make serving God   
   each ones number 1 priority.   
      
   Jesus gave an illustration about following him   
   that involved people begging off for what might   
   seem to be more than reasonable excuses.  One   
   said, 'permit me to bury my father' and another   
   said, 'permit me to say goodbye to my family'.   
   Jesus' summary opinion of these responses was,   
      
    "No one who puts his hand to the plow and   
    looks back is fit for service in the kingdom   
    of God." (Luke 9:62 NIV)   
      
   If this were given today, perhaps Jesus would   
   also have included someone who said, "first let   
   me go to this PTA meeting".   
      
   Jesus wasn't really saying that his followers   
   would have to be callous to things as important   
   as family needs, but his choice of rhetoric was   
   meant to drive home the point that "service in   
   the kingdom of God" really did take priority over   
   many things that might seem to be of personal   
   importance to people.   
      
   >   
   > ::snip::   
   >   
   > > So, don't get sucked into it 110%. This is called balance.   
   >   
   > Balance doesn't seem to be a primary trait of most JW's.   
      
   Balance doesn't seem to be a primary trait of   
   most people.  People who are first to point the   
   finger at others may not have a balanced view   
   of their own flaws.   
      
   >   
   > >> Jesus said if people put the kingdom first, all other things of a   
   > >> material concern would be added to them. That is what JWs have faith in   
   > >> and promote.   
   > >   
   > > I'm not sure I understand.. Are you saying that if someone believes and   
   > > becomes a JW, his cleft palate will be fixed? Or are you saying that it   
   > > really doesn't matter that he has a cleft palate and we should just be   
   > > happy that he is now a JW, since there "Will always be poor among us"????   
   >   
   > Actually, JC's promise was that the *needs* of his followers would always   
   > be taken care of if they put the Xtian work first.  If one realizes that   
   > part of the Xtian work is to help your fellow man, then this makes sense:   
   > one who is known to be charitable will usually receive help in times of   
   > need.   
      
   Still, there's a question of priority.  What   
   helps our fellow man more?  A singular work   
   of material charity, or the work of teaching   
   a person a set of values that helps the person   
   avoid being a 'burden on society'?  If, for   
   instance, learning the Bible helps a person   
   cease being a drunk or a drug abuser, or cease   
   being violent, and start being a loving parent   
   or other family member - what's worth more to   
   society?   
      
   We might say both are worth something, but   
   really its not for OTHERS to criticize how each   
   one chooses to spend their time in showing   
   charity to others.  It's not for others to say,   
   "you should be working in a soup kitchen   
   rather than be spending your time teaching   
   people the Bible."   Let the critic work in   
   the soup kitchen and prove that their own works   
   are righteous.   
      
   >   
   > It does *not* say that any kind of miracle will take place when someone   
   > pours there life into converting others.   
      
   Ezekiel was sent by God to preach to a people who,   
   as a whole, God already knew in advance wouldn't   
   pay him any attention.  So 'making converts' wasn't   
   even the point.  But Ezekiel was sent nonetheless   
   because God never passes judgment without giving   
   due warning, first.   
      
   To address your point more directly, however,   
   sometimes when people do (of their own free will)   
   "convert", their change for the better in personality   
   and lifestyle may seem almost miraculous.   
      
   >   
   > >> If you want to promote material concerns first, that is your business   
   > >> and your right.  You are trying to make JWs accountable to man for NOT   
   > >> seeking material charities first.  JWs feel that each of us are   
   > >> accountable for ourselves alone for our response to Jesus' direction to   
   > >> seek the kingdom first.   
   > >   
   > > I believe it is becoming of anyone that calls themselves Christian, to   
   > > Serve on another , JW or not. To ease suffering, bound up the wounds, and   
   > > teach them the gospel.. All of it.. not just hand them a Bible..   
   >   
   > Empty stomachs do not serve God.  The lesson of JC's miraculous production   
   > of food for thousands (the 2-loaves-2-fishes story) is precisely that: if   
   > those followers had nothing to eat, then they could not benefit from the   
   > wisdom they were partaking of.   
      
   Actually, you have the details of the story backwards.   
      
   Jesus' miraculous production of food was performed   
   at the end of the day, AFTER he had been teaching   
   them at length.  The reason he fed them was that it   
   was late and there would not have been time for them   
   to go home and get to the markets to feed themselves.   
      
   After one of those miraculous feedings, people searched   
   for Jesus the next day, and he criticized him for   
   seeking him out only because the day before they had   
   had their stomachs filled.  Those people didn't   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)