XPost: alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, talk.religion.misc   
   From: Evil-tyranny@theWickedWTs.net   
      
   "Mark Sornson"  wrote in message   
   news:3F61DA93.A0ED7B1@zk3.dec.com...   
   > > $$ THEIR own or the WTs?  Let's get honest here.   
      
   > When people join JWs -- which is a free-will thing --   
   > they agree to adopt a certain set of standards and   
   > values, and agree to adjust their personal priorities   
   > to that of the JW organization.   
      
   $$  Free will?   The message they bring is one of FEAR,... "Join our WTS or   
   our god Jehovah will kill you for all eternity and very, very soon."   Many   
   people will join them out of FEAR.  The ignorant, the gullible, those who   
   have an abnormal dread of death.   That still doesn't mean they all   
   mindlessly believe every utterance from the mouth of the GB.  The problem is   
   they are NOT ALLOWED to voice their concerns, their doubts and ask   
   questions.  They're accused of a weak faith, being demon inspired, and put   
   in fear of stumbling others and perhaps even being disfellowshipped.   
   Somewhere in the "free will" is lost because of fear and manipulation.  I   
   know for a fact many do NOT agree with everything the WT teaches.  Many are   
   trapped in this Publishing House Society (aka a JW Org.) because of the   
   shunning FEAR.   
      
     People who join   
   > who do NOT really adopt the values and priorities   
   > of the organization are not being honest with themselves   
   > or the organization.   
      
   $$  Some have no choice and since it's an ORG' and not a real CHRISTian   
   religion what does it matter if they continue to think for themselves, to   
   question WT non-CHRISTian policies, demands and beliefs?   
      
   > > $$ To *US?*  How can you speak for all JWs?  Did they make you their   
   > > spokesperson on Usenet?   
      
   > I'm more qualified to speak for JWs in general   
   > than you are, that's for sure.   
      
   $$ Hey, you're the one claiming to speak for all 6 million of them - not me.   
   -)   
      
   In all the years   
   > I've been posting on the net, I've never   
   > heard another JW say to me, "No, Mark, that's   
   > not what I and JWs in general believe."   
      
   $$ How can they?  Why would they?  You're the type they'd go to last to talk   
   about how they really feel.  All they'd get from someone like you is to have   
   WT selected scripture pushed into their face,.... you'd preach to them.   
   That's not what they'd want.   
      
   > >                          You make them sound like a huge group of   
   mindless   
   > > LEMMINGS all following the leaders (the GB) into the sea.   
      
   > They are a huge group of MINDFUL people who (for the   
   > most part -- there are always a handful of exceptions)   
   > have taken time to become educated in a set of beliefs   
   > and values, and have each made a personal decision --   
   > a dedication -- to follow those beliefs and live by   
   > those values.   
      
   $$  MINDFUL people?  If they had any independent thoughts at all they'd   
   never all agree on everything.  That goes against human nature.  That's why   
   we're not still living in caves and animal skin huts.  Human beings seldom   
   agree on any group of issues brought before them unless, like in communist   
   countries, they have NO CHOICE but to agree (or pretend to).   
   How is it you never mention the values of non-JWs who also live decent   
   lifestyles?   
      
   > You may have a problem with joining a group and   
   > making a dedication to a cause and a set of ideals,   
   > but for normal people, it really isn't such a   
   > difficult or unusual thing.   
      
   $$  If that's what NORMAL people all preferred, we'd all be living under   
   communism, or totalitarian rule - the same way the JWs live under the GB of   
   the WTS.  That's far from NORMAL for human beings of even average   
   intelligence.   
      
   > >                                                            Why not admit   
   > > that not all JWs agree with this idea but are forced to comply so as not   
   to   
   > > stumble others, or rock the WT boat?   
   >   
   > Why not admit it indeed?  Well gee ... one reason might   
   > be because it's absolutely false that anyone is forced to   
   > become a JW and agree with our teachings and values.   
      
   $$ See above.  Forced?  Not with a gun, but with threatening words and   
   frightening pictures, and WT text about being slaughtered at Armageddon if   
   they don't join.  The FEAR they'll never have eternal life.  Read the   
   horrors and look at the pictures in the WT mags and books.   
      
   > People who want to rock the boat are welcome to   
   > find another boat or simply jump in the 'water'   
   > and go for a swim.   
      
   $$ Which also means freedom from WT control and tyranny.  Jesus never said a   
   person has to be a JW, or a Moslem, or a Protestant to be "saved."   The JWs   
   never seem to mention that in all their endless Bible studies and in all   
   their endless stream of magazines and books.   
      
   JWs have no obligation to   
   > brook or encourage boat-rockers (especially those   
   > who real goal is to up-end the boat).   
      
   $$  So anyone not into the totalitarian regime of the WT rulers are call   
   "boat-rockers?"  Why not encourage your members to LOOK at what you teach on   
   their own?  To THINK and ask questions?   
      
   > >                                       Just because they can't vocalize   
   how   
   > > they feel doesn't mean they agree with the WT's self-interested   
   teachings.   
      
   > Despite the misguided intrigue of the notion,   
   > being a rebel without a cause or a clue isn't   
   > really a sound life strategy.   
      
   $$  Rebels always have reasons for refusing to bow down to a communistic   
   type, totalitarian regime.   Regimes where individual thought and ideas are   
   discouraged.    Where everyone is forced one way or the other to SEE things   
   as a few in power see them (the GB of the WT Corp in this case.).   
      
   > JWs invite people who find agreement with us to   
   > join with us and vocalize their agreement.  People   
   > who don't agree have the right to be like you,   
   > always complaining,   
      
   $$  What am I complaining about?  You're the ones always complaining how   
   Satan is causing so much trouble, how non-JWs are ruining the earth, how all   
   the other churches are whores of Babylon, how the Catholic church is so   
   corrupt....   and I notice none of you will discuss the huge pedophile   
   problem you have in your KHs.  So what am I complaining about?  You've been   
   asked this before and so far no answer from you.   
      
    but never really having a   
   > better set of workable ideas.   
      
   $$  Meaning what?  A BETTER Publishing House than the Watchtower Society?   
   Try any real religion out there - one is as good as the other and few are   
   run like communist countries or dictatorships.   
      
   But hey, if you're   
   > happy in your agitation, pardon me for leaving you   
   > to it.   
      
   $$ Agitation?  .....????   
   --   
   Rose Busch.....   
   "If, at age five, you do not know the gods are   
   made up things and the myths of impossible tales   
   you are a fool."   ~ Suetonius  75 - 160 AD ~   
   ========================================   
   >   
   > -mark.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)