XPost: alt.atheism, alt.flame.jesus.christ, alt.talk.creationism   
   XPost: sci.skeptic   
      
   On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 20:18:20 -0500, August Rode continued to wuss:   
   .   
   >On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:23:38 -0500, mur generously explained:   
   >   
   >>On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 09:47:34 -0500, August Rode wussed horribly:   
   >>.   
   >>>On 05/02/2015 4:29 PM, mur challenged:   
      
   >>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 21:02:36 -0500, August Rode    
   wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On 31/01/2015 7:12 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 17:06:11 -0500, August Rode    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> On 24/01/2015 1:45 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 08:39:31 -0500, August Rode    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> .   
   >>>>>>>>> On 15/01/2015 5:06 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 12:18:39 -0500, August Rode  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/01/2015 1:11 PM, mur.@.not. wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 13:19:47 -0500, August Rode  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>    
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>          So far it STILL appears clear that YOU lied since you   
   couldn't provide the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> supposed quote. Even if you eventually can, I did what you whined   
   about several   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> posts ago:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         Ok, AFAIK you have never claimed that all crop   
   circles were of human   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manufacture. Unless you can quote me saying you have made   
   that claim, it's now   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your turn to acknowledge that I've never claimed you have   
   made it.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> but you're not the quality of person to have acknowledged it. And   
   don't forget   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> that unless you present the quote I challenged you on it will   
   still appear that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> YOU are lying. I did say your position is suggesting it, but   
   don't recall saying   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> you actually had the balls to say it specifically even though   
   you've made it   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> clear that you believe it.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> You're *still* talking out of both sides of your mouth.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>         I'm still pointing out what you have done.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> I do not *believe* that all crop circles are made by humans.   
   Rather, it   
   >>>>>>>>>>> is a *fact* that requires absolutely no belief that all crop   
   circles   
   >>>>>>>>>>> have *probably* been made by humans and I've walked you through   
   the math   
   >>>>>>>>>>> for that.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>         You need to explain how people practice doing it so that   
   they can go out in   
   >>>>>>>>>> fields at night in the dark and do the jobs without making mistakes   
   that they   
   >>>>>>>>>> could not correct if they made any. Try doing that.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Why do *I* need to do that?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>        To show that you're able to think realistically about it for   
   one thing, and   
   >>>>>>>> to address a very significant aspect relative to whether or not   
   humans could   
   >>>>>>>> have made all of them for another.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> See my analysis of the crop circle you linked to below.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Why is this the first time you've mentioned this?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>        I've mentioned it a number of times as you're probably aware,   
   and you have   
   >>>>>>>> snipped it a number of times as you're probably equally aware.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> No, I'm not aware of that.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> You *still* don't appreciate my position. I do not hold any beliefs   
   >>>>>>>>>>> about who or what made an particular crop circle. For those known   
   to   
   >>>>>>>>>>> have been made by humans, no belief is required. For those whose   
   >>>>>>>>>>> manufacturer is unknown, I withhold belief as there is no point to   
   >>>>>>>>>>> holding a belief one way or the other. It is nevertheless a fact   
   that   
   >>>>>>>>>>> such crop circles are *probably* of human manufacture and that   
   doesn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>> require belief.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>         Yes it does. For example I don't believe they probably were   
   or probably were   
   >>>>>>>>>> not,   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> That's the beauty of facts... facts remain true regardless of whether   
   >>>>>>>>> you believe they're true or false. I take it that your understanding   
   of   
   >>>>>>>>> statistics and probability are weak if not nonexistent. I can   
   explain in   
   >>>>>>>>> more detail if it will help you.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>        You don't know how likely it is that xts would do something   
   like that   
   >>>>>>>> regardless of what you've learned about "probability". It makes you   
   feel better   
   >>>>>>>> somehow to take refuge in your own faith in the significance you like   
   to feel is   
   >>>>>>>> associated with it. But if humans couldn't have made all of those   
   patterns   
   >>>>>>>> without making mistakes they couldn't correct under the conditions   
   they appeared   
   >>>>>>>> during and within the time frames they appeared in, then they   
   couldn't have   
   >>>>>>>> regardless of statistics or probability as you interpret them. If   
   humans could   
   >>>>>>>> not and xts did, then no doubt there are still statisics and   
   probability   
   >>>>>>>> considerations that apply, but you're not taking them into   
   consideration and   
   >>>>>>>> don't have any way of knowing what they are.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> How many crop circles are definitely known to have been made by humans?   
   >>>>>>> How many are *definitely* known to have been made by extraterrestrials?   
   >>>>>>> If you didn't know whether a specific crop circle was human- or ET-made   
   >>>>>>> but had to bet one way or the other, which way would you bet? You do   
   >>>>>>> know how to calculate odds, don't you?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>       Explain how to calculate odds if xts DID make some of the   
   circles. I'm not   
   >>>>>> interested in how to do it if they were all made by humans, since there   
   aren't   
   >>>>>> any odds to calculate if they did.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Did you notice that you didn't answer any of my questions?   
   >>>>   
   >>>>      I responded to them in a more realistic way than you had previously   
   been   
   >>>> able to imagine, or are able to appreciate now.   
   >>>   
   >>>And you *still* didn't answer my questions.   
   >>   
   >>          I responded to them in a more realistic way than you had previously   
   >>been able to imagine, or are able to appreciate now. I don't know how to   
   >>calculate the odds if xts DID make some of them, so you try to explain it if   
   you   
   >>think you have some clue how to do it. Unless you DO it will remain clear   
   that   
   >>you don't have any idea at all, regardless of how you try to wuss away from   
   the   
   >>challenge.   
   >>   
   >>>>> Why should I   
   >>>>> respond to your demands when you won't answer my questions?   
   >>>>   
   >>>>      You're not able to do what I challenged you to do, and never will be.   
   >>>   
   >>>I can and will   
   >>   
   >>    I have no reason to believe you.   
   >>   
   >>>... when you've answered my questions. Quid pro quo...   
   >>>   
   >>>>> Do you know how to calculate odds?   
   >>>>   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)