XPost: sac.politics, can.politics, alt.atheism   
   XPost: alt.politics.homosexuality   
   From: mel@zzzzz.com   
      
   On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:42:48 -0600   
   David Johnston  wrote:   
      
   > On 4/29/2015 5:59 PM, mur wrote:   
   > > On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:48:48 -0600, David Johnston   
   > >  wrote: .   
   > >> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:56:00 -0400, mur wrote:   
   > >>   
   > >>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:15:01 -0600, David Johnston   
   > >>>  wrote: .   
   > >>>> On 4/7/2015 3:42 PM, David Johnston wrote:   
   > >>>>> On 4/7/2015 3:03 PM, mur wrote:   
   > >>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 18:52:21 -0600, David Johnston   
   > >>>>>>  wrote:   
   > >>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:02:15 -0400, mur. <> wrote:   
   > >>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 20:23:35 -0600, David Johnston   
   > >>>>>>>>  wrote:   
   > >>>>>>>> .   
   > >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 21:33:12 -0400, mur. <> wrote:   
   > >>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 19:37:05 -0600, David Johnston   
   > >>>>>>>>>>  wrote:   
   > >>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2015 5:11 PM, mur wrote:   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not actually supporting your case there.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Yeah it does.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Your quotation is quite clear.  All sinned.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>        That's a very common belief. In fact I've never   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> met anyone who didn't   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> believe it.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> Thus we are all damned to hell   
   > >>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>      Not necessarily. Do you have any clue why?   
   > >>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>> Because if Hell doesn't exist, we aren't damned to it.   
   > >>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>      And if it does?   
   > >>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> by default regardless of our particular   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> sins.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>       That would depend on the beliefs of the   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> individual.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which are whatever the individual wants them to be.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hence the actual   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>> prospect of going to prison being a more likely   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>> deterrent.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>        So you're saying we should believe no group of   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> people is more likely to   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>> abuse children than any other?   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> Nope.  That's not what I'm saying. And really I can't   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> recall the last   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> time that someone started a sentence with "So you're   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> saying" and accurately conveyed what the person was   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> saying.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>      Well so far you've provided no reason to believe I   
   > >>>>>>>>>> wasn't correct this time.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> It might in fact be the   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> case that atheists are statistically more likely to molest   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> children than   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> church-goers.  You just haven't made a good argument for   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> it or established that the difference, if it exist is   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> particularly large and   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> significant.   
   > >>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>      You still haven't provided reason to believe I wasn't   
   > >>>>>>>>>> correct.   
   > >>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>> Yes I have.  I've pointed out that Judeo-Christian religion   
   > >>>>>>>>> doesn't even   
   > >>>>>>>>> ban molestation.   
   > >>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>      How did you find that out?   
   > >>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>> I read the Bible.   
   > >>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>       What does it say about people eating their own children   
   > >>>>>> and their own feces?   
   > >>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>> I've pointed out that even if it did, the punishment   
   > >>>>>>>>> for it would be no more severe than it would be for being   
   > >>>>>>>>> alive.   
   > >>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>      We are told:   
   > >>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>> Mark 9:42   
   > >>>>>>>> "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who   
   > >>>>>>>> believe in me--to stumble,   
   > >>>>>>>> it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung   
   > >>>>>>>> around their neck and   
   > >>>>>>>> they were thrown into the sea."   
   > >>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>> That is an admonition against drawing children into sinful   
   > >>>>>>> behavior.  It has no bearing on sex, assuming you marry the   
   > >>>>>>> 12 year old first.   
   > >>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>       People had a different interpretation of maturity back   
   > >>>>>> in those days,   
   > >>>>>> probably in part because they didn't live half as long as they   
   > >>>>>> do today. Actually from the impression I get it's not that   
   > >>>>>> "they" thought it was ok for   
   > >>>>>> girls to marry at an "earlier" age, but it's more like "we"   
   > >>>>>> think they should   
   > >>>>>> wait until a later age than people in most of human history.   
   > >>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>> so there may be more to it than you want people to believe.   
   > >>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> You just kind of assumed that the many reports of child   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> molesting in connection to religious institutions are   
   > >>>>>>>>>>> anomalous or fabricated   
   > >>>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>>>      Try providing reason to believe that.   
   > >>>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>> That's what you said you were doing.   
   > >>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>      Present your quote(s).   
   > >>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>> Were you lying?   
   > >>>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>>>      No, but so far I must suspect that you may be.   
   > >>>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>> Oh.  My mistake.   
   > >>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>       You didn't provide your quote(s).   
   > >>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>> So instead your position is that the reports of child   
   > >>>>>>> molesting in connection to religious institutions are factual   
   > >>>>>>> and not anomalous.   
   > >>>>>>   
   > >>>>>>       I feel sure that some are and some are not,   
   > >>>>>   
   > >>>>> What do you imagine the word "anomalous" means?   
   > >>>>>   
   > >>>>   
   > >>>> And the incidentally the reason I didn't provide the quote was   
   > >>>> because sifting through dozens and dozens of your e-mails to   
   > >>>> find it would take too long and accomplish too little.   
   > >>>   
   > >>>     Translation: You did try and found that you couldn't support   
   > >>> your claim because it was a lie   
   > >>   
   > >> No, I didn't.   
   > >   
   > >      You're letting us know that you're either too half ass to try   
   > > supporting your own claim which still clearly appears to be a lie,   
   >   
   > If "supporting my claim" would accomplish anything I'd do it.  Since   
   > it won't, I won't.  Instead lets move on.  Is it your position that   
   > the reports of child molesting in connection to religious   
   > institutions are factual and not anomalous?   
   >   
   Celibates are prone to homosexual pedophilia...   
   It is written as set of rules that forbid socializing with boys   
   and forbid laying on same bed with "brothers" even father or real   
      
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