XPost: sac.politics, can.politics, alt.atheism   
   XPost: alt.politics.homosexuality   
   From: David@block.net   
      
   On 5/22/2015 10:03 AM, mur wrote:   
   > On Fri, 08 May 2015 23:37:57 -0600, David Johnston  wrote:   
   > .   
   >> On 5/8/2015 8:03 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:42:48 -0600, David Johnston  wrote:   
   >>> .   
   >>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:59:12 -0400, mur wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:48:48 -0600, David Johnston    
   wrote:   
   >>>>> .   
   >>>>>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:56:00 -0400, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:15:01 -0600, David Johnston    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>> .   
   >>>>>>>> On 4/7/2015 3:42 PM, David Johnston wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2015 3:03 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 18:52:21 -0600, David Johnston    
   >>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:02:15 -0400, mur. <> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 20:23:35 -0600, David Johnston    
   David@block.net>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> .   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 21:33:12 -0400, mur. <> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 19:37:05 -0600, David Johnston   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2015 5:11 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not actually supporting your case there.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        Yeah it does.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your quotation is quite clear.  All sinned.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         That's a very common belief. In fact I've never met   
   anyone   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who didn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe it.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus we are all damned to hell   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Not necessarily. Do you have any clue why?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Because if Hell doesn't exist, we aren't damned to it.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>       And if it does?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by default regardless of our particular   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sins.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        That would depend on the beliefs of the individual.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which are whatever the individual wants them to be.  Hence   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prospect of going to prison being a more likely deterrent.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         So you're saying we should believe no group of people   
   is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more likely to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abuse children than any other?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope.  That's not what I'm saying. And really I can't recall   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time that someone started a sentence with "So you're saying"   
   and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accurately conveyed what the person was saying.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Well so far you've provided no reason to believe I wasn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct this time.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might in fact be the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case that atheists are statistically more likely to molest   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> children than   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> church-goers.  You just haven't made a good argument for it or   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> established that the difference, if it exist is particularly   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significant.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>       You still haven't provided reason to believe I wasn't   
   correct.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I have.  I've pointed out that Judeo-Christian religion   
   doesn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> even   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> ban molestation.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>       How did you find that out?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> I read the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>        What does it say about people eating their own children and   
   their   
   >>>>>>>>>> own feces?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've pointed out that even if it did, the punishment   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> for it would be no more severe than it would be for being alive.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>       We are told:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Mark 9:42   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> me--to stumble,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> their neck and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> they were thrown into the sea."   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> That is an admonition against drawing children into sinful   
   behavior.  It   
   >>>>>>>>>>> has no bearing on sex, assuming you marry the 12 year old first.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>        People had a different interpretation of maturity back in   
   those   
   >>>>>>>>>> days,   
   >>>>>>>>>> probably in part because they didn't live half as long as they do   
   today.   
   >>>>>>>>>> Actually from the impression I get it's not that "they" thought it   
   was   
   >>>>>>>>>> ok for   
   >>>>>>>>>> girls to marry at an "earlier" age, but it's more like "we" think   
   they   
   >>>>>>>>>> should   
   >>>>>>>>>> wait until a later age than people in most of human history.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> so there may be more to it than you want people to believe.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You just kind of assumed that the many reports of child   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> molesting in connection to religious institutions are   
   anomalous or   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fabricated   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Try providing reason to believe that.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> That's what you said you were doing.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>       Present your quote(s).   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Were you lying?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>       No, but so far I must suspect that you may be.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Oh.  My mistake.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>        You didn't provide your quote(s).   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> So instead your position is that the reports of child   
   >>>>>>>>>>> molesting in connection to religious institutions are factual and   
   not   
   >>>>>>>>>>> anomalous.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>        I feel sure that some are and some are not,   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> What do you imagine the word "anomalous" means?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> And the incidentally the reason I didn't provide the quote was because   
   >>>>>>>> sifting through dozens and dozens of your e-mails to find it would   
   take   
   >>>>>>>> too long and accomplish too little.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>      Translation: You did try and found that you couldn't support your   
   claim   
   >>>>>>> because it was a lie   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> No, I didn't.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>      You're letting us know that you're either too half ass to try   
   supporting   
   >>>>> your own claim which still clearly appears to be a lie, or that you knew   
   it was   
      
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