XPost: sac.politics, can.politics, alt.atheism   
   XPost: alt.politics.homosexuality   
      
   On Fri, 29 May 2015 21:37:14 -0600, David Johnston  wrote:   
   .   
   >On 5/22/2015 10:03 AM, mur wrote:   
   >> On Fri, 08 May 2015 23:37:57 -0600, David Johnston  wrote:   
   >> .   
   >>> On 5/8/2015 8:03 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:42:48 -0600, David Johnston    
   wrote:   
   >>>> .   
   >>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:59:12 -0400, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:48:48 -0600, David Johnston    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>> .   
   >>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:56:00 -0400, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:15:01 -0600, David Johnston    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> .   
   >>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2015 3:42 PM, David Johnston wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2015 3:03 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 18:52:21 -0600, David Johnston <   
   avid@block.net>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:02:15 -0400, mur. <> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 20:23:35 -0600, David Johnston   
      
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> .   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 21:33:12 -0400, mur. <> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 19:37:05 -0600, David Johnston   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2015 5:11 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not actually supporting your case there.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        Yeah it does.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your quotation is quite clear.  All sinned.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         That's a very common belief. In fact I've never met   
   anyone   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who didn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe it.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus we are all damned to hell   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Not necessarily. Do you have any clue why?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because if Hell doesn't exist, we aren't damned to it.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>       And if it does?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by default regardless of our particular   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sins.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        That would depend on the beliefs of the individual.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which are whatever the individual wants them to be.  Hence   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prospect of going to prison being a more likely deterrent.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         So you're saying we should believe no group of   
   people is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more likely to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abuse children than any other?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope.  That's not what I'm saying. And really I can't recall   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time that someone started a sentence with "So you're saying"   
   and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accurately conveyed what the person was saying.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Well so far you've provided no reason to believe I wasn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct this time.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might in fact be the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case that atheists are statistically more likely to molest   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> children than   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> church-goers.  You just haven't made a good argument for it or   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> established that the difference, if it exist is particularly   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significant.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       You still haven't provided reason to believe I wasn't   
   correct.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I have.  I've pointed out that Judeo-Christian religion   
   doesn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> even   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ban molestation.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>       How did you find that out?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> I read the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>        What does it say about people eating their own children and   
   their   
   >>>>>>>>>>> own feces?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've pointed out that even if it did, the punishment   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for it would be no more severe than it would be for being alive.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>       We are told:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark 9:42   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> me--to stumble,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> their neck and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> they were thrown into the sea."   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> That is an admonition against drawing children into sinful   
   behavior.  It   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> has no bearing on sex, assuming you marry the 12 year old first.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>        People had a different interpretation of maturity back in   
   those   
   >>>>>>>>>>> days,   
   >>>>>>>>>>> probably in part because they didn't live half as long as they do   
   today.   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Actually from the impression I get it's not that "they" thought it   
   was   
   >>>>>>>>>>> ok for   
   >>>>>>>>>>> girls to marry at an "earlier" age, but it's more like "we" think   
   they   
   >>>>>>>>>>> should   
   >>>>>>>>>>> wait until a later age than people in most of human history.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> so there may be more to it than you want people to believe.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You just kind of assumed that the many reports of child   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> molesting in connection to religious institutions are   
   anomalous or   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fabricated   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       Try providing reason to believe that.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's what you said you were doing.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>       Present your quote(s).   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Were you lying?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>       No, but so far I must suspect that you may be.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Oh.  My mistake.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>        You didn't provide your quote(s).   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> So instead your position is that the reports of child   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> molesting in connection to religious institutions are factual and   
   not   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> anomalous.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>        I feel sure that some are and some are not,   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> What do you imagine the word "anomalous" means?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> And the incidentally the reason I didn't provide the quote was   
   because   
   >>>>>>>>> sifting through dozens and dozens of your e-mails to find it would   
   take   
   >>>>>>>>> too long and accomplish too little.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>      Translation: You did try and found that you couldn't support   
   your claim   
   >>>>>>>> because it was a lie   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> No, I didn't.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>      You're letting us know that you're either too half ass to try   
   supporting   
   >>>>>> your own claim which still clearly appears to be a lie, or that you   
   knew it was   
   >>>>>> a lie when you made the claim and that's why you can't try to support   
   it.   
   >>>>>   
      
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