XPost: sac.politics, can.politics, alt.atheism   
   XPost: alt.politics.homosexuality   
      
   On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 01:25:27 -0600, David Johnston  wrote:   
   .   
   >On 6/5/2015 2:23 PM, mur wrote:   
   >> On Fri, 29 May 2015 21:37:14 -0600, David Johnston  wrote:   
   >> .   
   >>> On 5/22/2015 10:03 AM, mur wrote:   
   >>>> On Fri, 08 May 2015 23:37:57 -0600, David Johnston    
   wrote:   
   >>>> .   
   >>>>> On 5/8/2015 8:03 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 18:42:48 -0600, David Johnston    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>> .   
   >>>>>>> On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 19:59:12 -0400, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 18:48:48 -0600, David Johnston    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> .   
   >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 16:56:00 -0400, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:15:01 -0600, David Johnston  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> .   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2015 3:42 PM, David Johnston wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/7/2015 3:03 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 18:52:21 -0600, David Johnston   
      
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:02:15 -0400, mur. <> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 20:23:35 -0600, David Johnston   
      
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 21:33:12 -0400, mur. <> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Mar 2015 19:37:05 -0600, David Johnston   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2015 5:11 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not actually supporting your case there.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         Yeah it does.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your quotation is quite clear.  All sinned.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          That's a very common belief. In fact I've never   
   met anyone   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who didn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe it.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus we are all damned to hell   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        Not necessarily. Do you have any clue why?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because if Hell doesn't exist, we aren't damned to it.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        And if it does?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by default regardless of our particular   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sins.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         That would depend on the beliefs of the   
   individual.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which are whatever the individual wants them to be.    
   Hence the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prospect of going to prison being a more likely deterrent.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          So you're saying we should believe no group of   
   people is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more likely to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abuse children than any other?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope.  That's not what I'm saying. And really I can't   
   recall the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time that someone started a sentence with "So you're   
   saying" and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accurately conveyed what the person was saying.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        Well so far you've provided no reason to believe I   
   wasn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct this time.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It might in fact be the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case that atheists are statistically more likely to molest   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> children than   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> church-goers.  You just haven't made a good argument for it   
   or   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> established that the difference, if it exist is particularly   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significant.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        You still haven't provided reason to believe I wasn't   
   correct.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I have.  I've pointed out that Judeo-Christian religion   
   doesn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ban molestation.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        How did you find that out?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I read the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>         What does it say about people eating their own children   
   and their   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> own feces?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've pointed out that even if it did, the punishment   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for it would be no more severe than it would be for being   
   alive.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        We are told:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark 9:42   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe   
   in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me--to stumble,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung   
   around   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their neck and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were thrown into the sea."   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is an admonition against drawing children into sinful   
   behavior.  It   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> has no bearing on sex, assuming you marry the 12 year old first.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>         People had a different interpretation of maturity back   
   in those   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> days,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> probably in part because they didn't live half as long as they   
   do today.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually from the impression I get it's not that "they" thought   
   it was   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> ok for   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> girls to marry at an "earlier" age, but it's more like "we"   
   think they   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> should   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> wait until a later age than people in most of human history.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so there may be more to it than you want people to believe.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You just kind of assumed that the many reports of child   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> molesting in connection to religious institutions are   
   anomalous or   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fabricated   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        Try providing reason to believe that.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's what you said you were doing.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        Present your quote(s).   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Were you lying?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>        No, but so far I must suspect that you may be.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh.  My mistake.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>         You didn't provide your quote(s).   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So instead your position is that the reports of child   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> molesting in connection to religious institutions are factual   
   and not   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anomalous.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>         I feel sure that some are and some are not,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> What do you imagine the word "anomalous" means?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> And the incidentally the reason I didn't provide the quote was   
   because   
   >>>>>>>>>>> sifting through dozens and dozens of your e-mails to find it would   
   take   
   >>>>>>>>>>> too long and accomplish too little.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
      
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