XPost: sac.politics, can.politics, alt.atheism   
   XPost: alt.politics.homosexuality   
      
   On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 20:32:45 -0400, Vincent Maycock  wrote:   
      
   >On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 00:41:17 -0400, mur wrote:   
   >   
   >>On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 17:12:10 -0400, Vincent Maycock  wrote:   
   >>.   
   >>>On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 12:31:46 -0400, mur wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 20:04:29 -0400, Vincent Maycock  wrote:   
   >>>>.   
   >>>>>On Fri, 03 Jul 2015 22:18:54 -0400, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>On Sat, 27 Jun 2015 16:49:05 -0400, Vincent Maycock    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>On Fri, 26 Jun 2015 21:55:01 -0400, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 15:57:18 -0400, Vincent Maycock    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 16:20:49 -0400, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>snip   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Try to explain WHAT type of evidence   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>Any kind.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>    You have no idea.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>Footprints in the sand or snow?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>    And you would of course be called on personally to verify that   
   they were   
   >>>>>>>>>>made by God, since you're such an authority. Tell us all how you   
   would know they   
   >>>>>>>>>>were the real thing?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>I don't know; but remember, mur I'm not looking for "proof" here, just   
   >>>>>>>>>evidence.   If people were always saying, "Oh, hey, look there's some   
   >>>>>>>>>footprints in the snow again; probably God just made those footprints,   
   >>>>>>>>>since I was just talking to him in prayer, and he said he was nearby."   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Tell us also how you know he didn't already leave   
   >>>>>>>>>>footprints a thousand years ago, or do other less pathetic things to   
   show of his   
   >>>>>>>>>>existence.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>He might have, but let's stay with what we can see and experience   
   >>>>>>>>>rather than made-up ideas that go "how do we know ...??" and so on.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>    Why shouldn't he feel that the footprints and other evidence he   
   left a   
   >>>>>>>>thousand years ago were good enough that he doesn't have to keep   
   providing it   
   >>>>>>>>over and over and over again?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>A video-tape of God on the evening news?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>    Being an authority on this tell us how you would also verify the   
   >>>>>>>>>>authenticity of a video "tape", and what you imagine should be on   
   it. What sort   
   >>>>>>>>>>of sound track? What sort of narration?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>I'm thinking David Muir from ABC World News would say something like   
   >>>>>>>>>"And in other news today, God was seen flying through the sky and   
   >>>>>>>>>walking on water."   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>I would consider that to be good evidence, and possibly even proof,   
   >>>>>>>>>depending on the circumstances, that God exists.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>    From my pov he would feel justified to think he doesn't need to   
   come perform   
   >>>>>>>>tricks like that in an attempt to persuade people he apparently   
   doesn't care   
   >>>>>>>>about anyway.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>That doesn't sound like the God of the Bible ("not caring about   
   >>>>>>>people"),   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>    My impression is that he doesn't care about some people. What makes   
   you   
   >>>>>>think he cares about every one of them?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>It's standard Christian theology.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>    In contrast to that some Christians believe God will send other   
   Christians   
   >>>>to Hell. I heard people in Methodist and Baptist churches say Catholics   
   aren't   
   >>>>Christians and will be sent to Hell. In a Church of God I heard a preacher   
   tell   
   >>>>the congregation Mormons aren't Christian. I don't believe God would send   
   his   
   >>>>own people to Hell, and maybe not even those of you who work against him   
   but I   
   >>>>sure can't think of any good reason why he should care about people like   
   you,   
   >>>>and things I've read in the Bible indicate that he doesn't. If you think he   
   >>>>should give a shit about you though, I'm sure it would be good fun to see   
   you   
   >>>>try to explain why so please make an attempt.   
   >>>   
   >>>In standard Christian theology, God cares about the lost but has other   
   >>>things to contend with that prevent him from helping them.   
   >>>   
   >>>snip   
   >>>   
   >>>>>>>an   
   >>>>>>>omnipotent being should be able to change it for the better.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>    I believe omnipotence is not possible. Why do you believe it is?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>I don't believe in it, but I do think the concept is logically   
   >>>>>coherent, if you construct logical worlds where A is not equal to   
   >>>>>itself.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>    Try doing it. So far it just sounds like more bullshit.   
   >>>   
   >>>This comes from the "rock so big you can't use it" paradox, which   
   >>>reduces to the question of can God cause A and (not A) to be true at   
   >>>the same time.   
   >>>   
   >>>So if we assume he can,   
   >>   
   >>    I don't. You do.   
   >>   
   >>>then the resolution to the conundrum would be   
   >>>that God simultaneously can and can't lift the rock;   
   >>   
   >>    You live in your own universe of make believe.   
   >>   
   >>>in this idea, he   
   >>>exists in a superposition of states like those found in quantum   
   >>>mechanics.   
   >>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>you think there should be, WHERE you   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>think it should be,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>Anywhere.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>    You have no idea.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>In the snow or sand?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>    How you would verify? To start with, explain this:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_Footprints   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>These animal tracks are scarcely different in quality from the   
   >>>>>>>>>evidence for Bigfoot, what with all the questions indicating that it's   
   >>>>>>>>>a hoax combined with the kind of tracks left by hopping wood mice.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>    You would no doubt say something similar about footprints of God   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>If it was Bigfoot-grade, with allegations of "hoax" swirling about it,   
   >>>>>>>I would probably say the same thing, yes.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>    From your superior position how would instruct God to make his   
   particular   
   >>>>>>"footprints" verifiable to you, so you could verify them to the rest of   
   >>>>>>humanity?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>Get a news team out there as soon as possible, or maybe even allow us   
   >>>>>to watch the footprints appear as he "walks beside us in a   
   >>>>>relationship with him."   
   >>>>   
   >>>>    Why shouldn't he have done something similar in the past and not need   
   to do   
   >>>>it again?   
   >>>   
   >>>There's nothing in theology that restricts God to doing things only   
   >>>once.   
   >>   
   >>    So if God does exist you feel that YOU should be able to arrange his   
   >>schedule. HILARIOUS!!!   
   >   
   >Your idea of God includes a daily schedule for him, a schedule which   
   >he's too feeble to get around?  What kind of nonsense is that?   
      
       You made it clear you can't defend the idea that he should behave as you   
   want him to, which I knew to begin with.   
      
   >>>>There's also the basic starting line none of you can get as far as,   
      
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